It is still an option. I can name many people, some in my own family, that
have never had a driving license in their lives. I can do the same if I
choose to, but jobs in my walking area don't pay what I make so I choose to
drive every day, 52 miles. There are people that still choose to live in
the city so they do not need a car.
People didn't stop buying gasoline but they bought less of it. In the
case of gasoline the suppliers are selling less but making _more_ money.
In the case of saws with saw stops, the manufacturers will be selling
fewer saws and making _less_ money.
While I'm posting, I might as well add...
Air bags do save lives. However, a 6 point safety harness and a crash
helmet for each driver and passenger would cost less than equipping a
car with air bags and save even more lives. Perhaps the government
should require it.
Just think how much safer a motorcycle would be... If it had 2 more
wheels! Perhaps the government should require it.
Does anyone know if a sawstop saw can run a dado blade?
Driving at 55mph would save more lives than allowing higher speeds.
It would not be difficult with today's electronic engine controls to
govern the top speed of a car and limit it to 55. Perhaps the
government should require it.
A swimming pool that was, say, 4 feet max depth would no doubt be
safer than a pool that had a max depth of 12 feet. The 4 foot pool
would save lives. Perhaps the government should require it.
You'd be surprised...
We got a down check once on a safety inspection here for not have a written
start-up procedure for a power tool..... a cordless drill.
We also didn't have a published "Hot work" (welding etc) policy... despite
not doing any hot work.
IMHO - one of the biggest safety risks is government regulations that turn
safety into a joke (which it isn't). Safety is at risk when people lose
respect for the rules, or the process. The nature of regulation (and
liability) is to cater to the lowest common denominator, and that isn't
going to change.
(working where a band-aid has to be "dispensed" by trained staff)
Probably true. But if you lived in Houston that would be hard to prove.
LOL.. I think more people are speeding since the price of gasoline went up
and the stations certainly are still busy.
Maybe, there is the possibility that pricing may deter some from buying
however there may be some that were reluctant to switch from a BS because it
safer to operate for some cutting operations than a TS. If the TS suddenly
removes a lot of risk TS sales may in fact increase. The Minimax instructor
told me that he only used the TS when the BS could not make the cut and
stated safety reasons. Not that this particular reasoning would play out
but it certainly is a posibility.
Perhaps. If you are into organized racing, it is required although not by
Aw, well then it would not technically be a motorcycle any more.
Yes, It can.
Well, in a way the government has been requiring a vehivle to not go over 55
in certain areas for years, are you against driving the speed limit?
Well a person can drown in 6" of water, might as well go for that.
Additionally the government does require secure fencing around a pool in
some areas regardless of pool depth.
With anything you can take everything to an extreme.
IMHO, of all the government regulated situations, many of which I agree with
and many I do not, I think that making the SawStop technology mandatory
would not be a bad thing. Plain and simple.
You may have valid reasons for the opposite position. We disagree, on this
subject. NO big deal. Freedom of speech right? I have that right, you
have that right, although you may not like that because the government has
its nose in protecting our freedom of speech also.
On a different note, the city government in Houston has recently started
using traffic cameras to monitor and take pictures of vehicles running red
lights. It is about a 50/50 mix as to whether you are for it or whether you
are against it. Most against it are claiming, invasion of privacy, that it
is just another way of generation more revenue for the city, higher taxes to
get the system up and running, some one else may be driving my car when the
car runs a red light, and the list goes on. At first I was against it. Now
I am all for it considering that if it can help prevent 4 to 5 cars from
running the light almost every time the light changes to red in many
locations, it will probably save lives. I had to stop thinking about how it
would just affect me. While many people are clueless how many TS accidents
that there actually are, one test intersection in Houston recorded more than
600 violations the first month that the camera was in operation and those
were only the ones that the camera caught.
I suspect that it may only be capable of catching 1 at a time and may miss
the other 3 or 4 that were behind the lead car.
IMHO the cameras are good as they may very well save my life one day and
auto insurance premiums in Harris county may go down as a result of fewer
accidents caused by motorists running red lights. There is a reason that
Houston has higher auto insurance rates than most anywhere else and even if
you do not live in the area, if you use the same auto insurance company you
are indeed paying higher rates than necessary because of the amount of
accidents every day in Houston. Do you recall people complaining about
homeowners insurance rates and flood insurance rates and taxes going up to
cover damage caused by Katrina even though they live no where near the
coast and have had no claims?
Thanks Chris - I looked and could not find this important info.
Thats a margin breaker...likely to be something like 30% of the cost
It would be my opinion that we should not disillusion ourselves that
the inventor cares about saving fingers. Its all about the $$. IMO, in
his victory he saw money not safety. Thats not to say I blame him but
lets call a spade a spade.
Agreed. But if you read this thread thoroughly you'll find some
statements that make it seem as though this guy is doing it to save
fingers - maybe so, but that is not his primary goal, in my opinion.
If it were he could offer the license for a more reasonable price.
So to repeat myself its about calling a spade a spade.
This is onerous since usual royalties for IP are in the .5-2% range. Also in
a manufacturing environment that translates into a 16-20% of the
manufacturers cost to build. Hardly a commercial viable proposition.
Fein could look into this. They manufacture the Multimaster. It can use a
circular blade that cuts through stationary objects but does not spin.
Because it does not spin it will not cut your finger. The blade oscillates
in a shorter distance than you skin will move. The blade simply vibrates
you skin. It would have a long way to go but it has its potential. No kick
(Amazon.com product link shortened)"8013
Your arguments about insurance prices dropping do not stand up to scrutiny -
when was the last time you had an insurance agent ask you if you use a table
saw? Yes it would be a factor for a place like Woodcraft that has classes
for folks but for individuals it is not.
I agree that safety is important but you seem intent on removing any
responsibility from the user for their stupidity. . . A table saw can be
used safely but not by idiots.
I have a 5HP Left Tilt Unisaw in my shop with a Biesmeyer splitter - it is
safe to use as long as I follow the rules - if I don't then it is my fault
not the governments because they do not mandate that everyone use a SawStop.
I refuse to allow the government to tell me what kind of table saw I can
buy - there are much more dangerous things they do little about - cancer
caused by tobacco kills how many people a year? Roughly 45,000 people die in
the US in traffic accidents every year (half of which involve drinking and
driving). A few missing digits while not wonderful hardly rates high for
things that require government interference. . .
January 2005 and he saw my damaged thumb. We alos talked about whether I
needed extra insurance to occasionally haul manufactured goods to a
customer. He ultimately offered me lower home owner and auto rates and this
year the rates have come down about 15%.
Yes it would be a factor for a place like Woodcraft that has classes
My personal experience proves otherwise.
Absolutely true and also absolutely ture is the fact that ANYONE including
you can have an accident on a TS.
I am absolutely not trying ro remove user responsibility. I simply want
insurance premiums to resude for everyone and for there to be less injuries.
Blame the tool manufacturers that decided to not make their saws safer for
the inevetable mandate.
If you believe that using a saw safely will save your butt you are pretty
Did you buy your TS new? If so you bought a guard that the government
requires it to have.
It sounds like you simply want to go against the government, period. The
government could simply out law tobacco and that would take care of future
generations. But people like you would not like the government interfeering
with you doing harm to your self. Why not eleminate the problem to start
Roughly 45,000 people die in
Actually it is based on your sample of "one" which is not statistically
valid. . .
Yes I would like insurance premiums to decrease but to do that we need to
get rid of all the lawyers. Do you know how much of the price of a ladder is
due to the liability insurance the manufacturer has to pay?
I do know that using it safely will reduce the chance of injury but not
necessarily remove it entirely. But life is full of risks - I could slip in
the shower, get hit walking to the mailbox, get struck by lightening, shot
is a drive by shooting. . . et al. I refuse to become paranoid about
"something that MIGHT happen to me".
The guard was a POS and was removed. Even use of a (good) guard does not
remove all danger.
I feel that government is too intrusive. I am not a socialist - history
shows that it is ultimately unworkable. You seem to have a belief that
government can solve all the problems. The recent fiasco with the TSA and
operating from fear not logic is getting a bit old.
If you cannot get it then doubt it would do much good to explain. . .
Actually it is based on your sample of "one" which is not statistically
Say what you want. It is a real statistic compared to all of your
The cost if every thing is affect by something. You either agree to pay or
So you own absolutely no health home or auto insurance?
Did you chang you mind? First you refuse to allow the government to tell
you what kind of saw to buy, next you let some things through as
acknowledged by the fact that you bought a saw with a required guard.
I agree that nothing is going to cover all instances regarding safety.
I do not seem to think that government can solve all things. I simply think
that of all the things that the government gets involved in, this particular
situation is a good one.
Well certainly you are not suggesting that the government get involved with
Did you ever study statistics? A sample size of one is statistically not
valid when compared to the millions of saws out there. . .
There seems to be an inabilty to link cause and effect here. . .
I have insurance but insurance to to protect against losses you cannot
afford to pay for yourself - it is not to make one "whole".
You logic is slipping here - All new tablesaws come with guards. I needed a
table saw so I bought one. My decision to buy was not based on the type of
guard it had on it nor the fact that the government required it have one.
You fail to connect the dots here. Your idea of a nanny government is not
workable. It is impossible to reduce the possibility of injury to 0% even
with a Sawstop since statistics indicate that at some point in time it will
fail to operate properly. As I stated previously intelligent proper use of a
TS will minimize risk to acceptable levels.
Do you read English? What does practicing medicine have to do with traffic
accidents and drinking and driving?
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