I saw a demo, and it did certainly work, dunno what damage it did to
the saw tho, it was dramatic. My guess is the saw will never cut
straight again, then there's the cost. A new thing from Sawstop, a new
blade, and possibly a new saw, or a re-alingment as well. Just learn
to be careful!
But why just table saws? they cause the most accidents, but probably
because they are the most common tool. Routers and circular saws must
also be up there. Why provide a "safety blanket" for one tool, and
lull amateur woodworkers into the "parachute" syndrome?
I think that table saws are the most likely candidate for this.
Routers are handheld and it is likely that stopping one with a heavy bit in
mid rotation will rip the thing out of your grasp.
Circular saws are often used to cut through wood with nails in it and are
used in the rain so they would get triggered by accident. They are hand held
so all the energy stored in the spinning blade would cause it to move around
if you stop instantaneously. It would also make them heavier.
Joiners have very heavy cutter heads so that instantaneous stopping would be
tough and would probably be rather destructive.. They also don't chop off
fingers, they only shave the ends off of them so it is not as easy to find
pictures which will make you queasy - gory pictures are necessary for
getting legislation passed.
I'm working on my own top secret HammerStop which will prevent you from
smashing your thumb. Sorry can't tell you all the details, but you know
those big foam fingers that people hold up at sports events...
I wish you'd have perfected it about 30 years ago. I was adding on to my
first house with the FIL's help. Had the footing forms all nailed up and
was staking them in. The 1 x 4 straps were nailed on with 8d duplex nails
and somehow I rested my right thumb on the head of one while holding a 1 x
4 stake against the side of the form so the FIL could hammer it home with
the 8 lb maul. He missed. After I unplugged my thumb from the duplex nail
looked kinda like one of theos big foam fingers, only with blood spurting
Hey, you can't do that, I've already patented "Hammerstop" It's based
around a small heat sensor in the hammer head that senses human flesh
warmth. It only works when the hammer blow is under way, an
acceleration sensor disables it at other times. When triggered, it
sets off an air-bag about the size of a basketball. Neat idea huh?
Anyway, I reckon it will only add $41.39 to the OEM cost of a hammer,
so, yes, that will represent a modest increase at the retail level.
But it will be worth it. I reckon it will save millions in health
costs each year.
But anyway, whining about the tiny little extra cost won't help. I
have petitioned the UN to make it compulsory worldwide, and they have
agreed. This is reportedly the first useful thing the UN has ever
Other things coming are a "Screwdriverstop", a "Canopenerstop" a
"Papercutstop" an "Unsafesexstop" and others I cannot reveal.
Barry "The stopper" Lennox
No not me, though I feel another good idea coming on. An alcohol
sensor that fires an airbag on the glass, if it senses more than x mg
on your breath.
Sorry, gotta rush to the Patent Office, then gotta call at the
Surgeon-Generals Office to petition him to make this complusory.
Yet another negative - they're trying to force everyone to have one of
these and the moment it goes off, you're probably out the price of a
new table saw. I'd rather take my chance and practice proper respect
and care whilst using the saw.
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:21:22 +1200, Barry Lennox
I haven't been paying that much attention to this thread, but you guys
got me to turn around. Are you actually saying you would rather lose a
finger or a hand than buy a new saw? Even the most scrupulously careful
can have an accident. Or don't you believe that?
I'd be interested to find out how many people have lost an entire hand to a
table saw. Some, I'm sure, but....
As to the rest, I don't think anyone is saying they'd rather lose a finger than
buy a new tablesaw, though in some cases with the rise in price that SawStop is
certain to bring, that might be an option for people who otherwise would have
to drop out of woodworking.
What they're saying, IMO, is that they do not see a company worming its way
into government arenas to force us to buy a safety attachment that is proven,
to some extent anyway, in experimentation, but unprove in real life use. There
are other methods that can help prevent, or reduce the severity, of accidents
at relatively low cost, with no harmful effect on the tool after it use.
European style crown guards are one. Over-the-blade box guards are another.
Splitters are another.
We have no information, and SawStop is carefully not providing any, on whether
or not the reaction of the brake will ruin the saw, the blade, whatever.
Supposedly, you can pop in a new cartridge and merrily saw away. Practically,
one does have to wonder what that sudden stop, and quick drop, will do to a
carbide tipped saw blade, not to mention the arbor bearings and the arbor
So, no: no one wants to lose a finger in preference to buying a new saw, but we
do wonder, if my above suppositions are correct, why in the hell we should
allow the government to force us to buy unproven technology. I'm often classed
as a liberal, but I do not see this as a political issue. It is an issue of
overweening business arrogance, added to a similar dose of "We know what's good
for ya" from the Feds, which tends to mean, at least to me, that the average
cost of a decent contractor saw is going to pee an arc that reaches $1000 in
short order, with cabinet saws jumping proportionately.
The company estimate was originally for a $150 addition in cost to the saw.
With government intervention, any need for price moderation disappears, and
we're quite possibly looking at another $600 hammer.
I think we agree, the past is over.
George W. Bush
Rich Davis, the inventor of soft body armor, routinely shoots himself to
prove that his product works. It is amazing to watch him take a 6" 44
magnum, hold it against his chest, and pull the trigger. I believe that he
has done this over 1,200 times. He truly believes in his product.
SawStop likes to test their product with a hot dog. I guess that they
have done one test where they slowly touched the blade. I would like to see
a real demo of the product where they rip a piece of wood and run their
fingers directly into the saw blade. You figure that when you rip a piece
of wood you move the wood 10 or 20 inches in 3 to 5 seconds. Now THAT would
be an interesting demo.
I took a .38 caliber to the chest with body armor a few years ago -
completely knocked me on my ass and cracked a rib.
I don't even think I'd test the Saw Stop by putting my finger on the flat
side of the blade at full rpm - just the friction burn would hurt! :-)
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:00:29 GMT, Lawrence Rottersman
No, nobody has ever said that. Don't bother attributing statements
that were never made. It's pig-ignorant.
There are a number of other more relevant issues: Including:
I, nor anybody I know, has lost any body parts to a circular saw. I
have had a few injuries and bruises through kickback. Sawstop does not
stop that. Therefore. based on MY experience, it's useless.
Yes, the careful can have an accident. But most do not. It's all about
responsibility. Some would be better taking up knitting. If you simply
pay attention, concentrate and ALWAYS know where your hands are, it's
hard to get cut.
Sawstop says "all the right things", but it's really about them making
lots of money, by compulsion.
If it goes off with wet wood, will they give me money-back warranty on
all the parts that require replacement. No they will not.
What's the total cost of mandated sawstops vs the cost of the
accidents they would have prevented. I will not accept any figures
Sawstop produce, they have a vested interest here.
I'm basically libeterian, and I swing conservative or liberal depending
on my mood, but what I am constant about is the belief that people
should be free to do what they please with their own bodies, so long as
it does not intefer with the safety of others, which is why having
brakes on your car is a good idea to be mandatory, while wearing
seatbelts (also a good idea) should not be required by law. Nobody
(imho) looking at a tablesaw cutting wood for the first time needs a
politican to tell him what it can do to his bodyparts.
I also think companies should be free to make as much money as they can,
although not by way of Enron, World Com, etc., and they should do so out
of their pocket, not that of the public treasury
Anyway, in reference to the two people whose posts I reacted to did, for
me, make the inference clear they would not buy Sawstop because it
wrecked the saw when it worked. However, I'm quite sure they are smarter
than my smart-assed remarks above and are more than welcome to my
apology if they think one is needed.
One last thought. Safety, if taken too far, can be dangerous too, as in
the overly prudent driver. But for people like me, who have to balance
their love of woodworking with their inclination to carelessness, than
safety does have more than usual importance.
No, nobody has ever said that. Don't bother attributing statements
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