Refurbished Unisaws

My point is that although we like to buy American, some foreign makes are superior. So superior that they now justify putting assembly plants in the US. EVERY country is capable of making junk or making a quality product. It is the management philosophy of the company that makes the difference, followed by training and quality control To stay in business, a company has to make a profit. To sustain sales, they have to make a product people want to buy. While I've never owned a Japanese car, there are a couple of my list to check out for my next purchase, probably next summer. It may be another nail in the coffin for GM as most of my cars have been for many years.

Ease of use and operability too. Toyota has the best view through the mast when driving forward, a big plus. Buying forklifts is worse than buying a used car. The two salesmen were fiercely competing down to the last minutes. I had one in the conference room and the other called twice trying to better his deal. When both trucks were in our plant for test use, each salesman pointed out why his was better in complete contradiction to the other. One has a high air intake, the other low. Each says the other sucks in more dust. One has controls low, the other high, each says his were less tiring to use and more ergonomic.

We went from one truck to two, then to four in the past six years, but the real price negotiation was for the first. We maintain the same price level. They make very little on the truck sale , but they make money on the quarterly service for years.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski
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I think the real reason for building plants in the US is to avoid the rediculously high import tax. IIRC the Acura that my wife and I bought in

1990 stickered for about 14,500. Had there been no import tax the sticker would have been closer to $10,000.
Reply to
Leon

We've a Prestige 'Aroma', dual, non sissy, full Monte, four banger bagel toaster for about four years that I thought was a pretty damn good toaster because that sucker has a timer SO F**&ING GOOD that it pops up PERFECTLY toasted bread the EXACT _same_ second that my two morning eggs are done to perfection!!

... until I read your post, that is. I just turned the damn thing over (spreading crumbs all over the place in the process ... thanks a lot) and DAMN me if it ain't "Made in China"!

Now I feel screwed, despite the fact it's performed flawlessly for all that time.

Jeeeezuss, what's this country coming to?!?

Reply to
Swingman

| Jeeeezuss, what's this country coming to?!?

You made me look. The kitchenAid (a Whirlpool brand) on our counter claims to come from St. Joseph, Michigan. I have another in my consulting kit that I bought in a Philly WalMart for $14.95 (along with a similarly priced rice cooker) that I can't imagine coming from fron anywhere other than China.

The KitchenAid toaster has an LED "toastedness" display, but doesn't do a noticably better job (repeatable result, even-toasting, etc) than the $85-cheaper Chinese product. Both of 'em are a PIA when it comes to emptying the crumbs [thank you very much for the reminder!]

But the only conclusion that this discussion leads to is that some Chinese factories can produce _some_ things less-expensively than American factories can. If you're a toaster production line assembly person being paid $20/hour (based on seniority) to put the four bottom screws through the plastic feet, that's probably disturbing.

The word "some" above is important. There's stuff _not_ coming out of Chinese factories yet that _is_ produced here. We can either complain about how they've learned to do some of the things that we learned sooner, or we can focus on providing the world with the things that they can't produce less expensively (yet).

The really important question has to be: Is there a scenario in which everyone does that business activity they do best so as to produce a synergy of American and Chinese (and ...) efforts?

I'm fairly well convinced that win-lose strategies utlimately produce only lose-lose results.

It would seem that the world has shrunk to the point where we're obliged to start learning how to "play well with others" - and to remember that we don't own all the toys nor make all the rules.

Fortunately, excellence is still treasured everywhere.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

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Reply to
Morris Dovey

Do you really want to buy used underwear? I mean, someone else's 'boys' have been in there... ;-)

There may be a law that prohibits selling used underwear, I've never seen any - but I could be wrong. Perhaps it's that no one buys it so they don't bother putting it out.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

Did I mention that the Eureka "Boss" I used to suck up all those crumbs was 'Assembled in Mexico'?

Reply to
Swingman

I am a happy owner of a Grizzly 1023SL.

Still, for $1299 for a Unisaw that you can get locally, that might be a better deal. First, if you get a Grizzly with a 50" fence, it will raise the price; add shipping and I guess you would be right at $1299.

Then there is the benefit of a local vendor. Grizzly does a great job of after sales support, but it is long distance. If you need a replacement part, it will take a few days to arrive.

Either way, I believe you will get a fine deal.

Reply to
Jim Weisgram

I have heard the same thing. When I asked the salesman about it, he denied there was a problem and then stalked off in a huff...

Apparently, however, if you do get an unbroken one, it doesn't subsequently break in service. But it IS worrysome... Is there a crack lurking in there - cast iron is funny like that...

I would say, however, that dropping the saw on it's side - with a huge motor attached - would constitute undue and abnormal stress.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

Old news (there's a contradiction in terms for you) ... IIRC, that problem, not all that prevalent in the first place considering the number of units sold, was addressed/solved at last two or three years ago.

Certainly not something to kill a deal unless one is looking for an excuse, IMO.

Reply to
Swingman

This was last year - the last time I was caught drooling over a new saw...

Being a local dealer, however, I would think the problem of subsequent shipping damage would rest squarely on the purchasers shoulders.

My problem at this point would be how to get the darned thing off my truck with only two helpers - one of them being a large, but wimpy, friend and the other being SWMBO. Partial disassembly on the pallet would help - but I'm not sure. They claim a weight of ~450 pounds, but from the horror stories I've read concerning moving heavy saws...

I AM lucky to have a drive the runs right up to the door, however. No 250' treks across a wet lawn, down a hill, and around a curving staircase.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

You had been talking about a TOASTER. . .

BB

Reply to
BB

I've seen tons of stuff labeled "packed in USA", on the box, and the device inside is labeled with the actual country of origin.

Reply to
Ba r r y

When I bought my 5HP Left Tilt Uni (500+ pounds) several years ago - I brought it home on my utility trailer behind my van - Woodcraft warned me to be careful and not drop it or bounce in the trailer (hit bumps on the road et al ) as it could damage the trunion (when I unpacked it and set it up there was a large very firm block of foam that the motor was resting on - I kept this in case I ever have to move it) - When I got home I made a ramp of 2x10 and slid it down to a moving dolly and then into the garage - the key is taking it slow and easy - don't rush and you could even unload it by yourself - I had a couple of piano movers take a full size upright down a set of steep stairs by themselves and it weighs more than the Uni - remember your physics class and use the correct items to make it easier and safer.

BB

Reply to
BB

That was part of the point.

Toyota has been building Tacomas since 1991 in Fremont, CA. Get this... They use a shuttered GM plant.

The factory, known as NUMMI , also builds the Corolla, the Pontiac Vibe, and a car that gets exported back to Japan and not sold at all in North America.

Toyota also has an interesting method of shipping cars built on the west coast to the east coast via ship. The ship comes from Japan full of Japanese-built Lexus and Toyotas. Vehicles bound for the western US get dropped off, and US built cars destined for the east coast are loaded. The ship is making the voyage anyway, with the Japanese product, so savings is obtained by not shipping vehicles by truck or rail across the country. The same ship carries US built cars back to Japan.

When I bought my last truck, I needed to order it. The salesman called me during the wait to tell me it was "on the boat". I truly thought he was pulling my leg until I investigated it.

Barry

Reply to
Ba r r y

A few years ago I had a piano picked up after a flood by a restorer and his smallish 16 year old daughter (a sad story in itself as I found out later, as her mother had died when she was three and it had been her dad and her against the world ever since).

In any event, these two moved that piano down four steps, out to the curb and loaded it into the back of a pickup with a camper on it, by themselves, without breaking a sweat, and in less time than it takes to tell ... it was one of the most magnificent displays of choreographed physics I've ever witnessed. Archimedes would have been proud.

Reply to
Swingman

| On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:57:31 -0600, "Morris Dovey" | wrote: | || Swingman (in 882dnXJ4fJ7ea snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com) said: || ||| Jeeeezuss, what's this country coming to?!? || || You made me look. The kitchenAid (a Whirlpool brand) on our counter || claims to come from St. Joseph, Michigan. | | I've seen tons of stuff labeled "packed in USA", on the box, and the | device inside is labeled with the actual country of origin.

Me too. This was on the back of the toaster itself. The box is long gone.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

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Reply to
Morris Dovey

Back around '71, I was living in a second floor apartment in Albany, NY. Brownstone. Up to the stoop, which was about 8 or 9 stairs. Then up a full, narrow flight with a sharp turn at the very top...first floor ceilings were at least 10' tall, so lots of steps. We bought a new refrigerator. One guy delivered it. I just looked at him, from my 6'2" and 185 pounds (them days are gone forever). He was maybe 5'9 and about

140 pounds, my father's size and weight. I figured I was going to have to help, but he lowered the box off the truck by himself with two straps. He then pulled the cardboard off, slipped a line around it, and hooked that to a tump line around his forehead and slowly walked that 300+ pound icebox up those two flights, walked through the hall and set it in place in the kitchen.

I stood there with my mouth open, during which period he leveled it and plugged it in and took the 10 buck tip I handed him.

Reply to
Charlie Self

When I was looking at cabinet saws about 6 years ago I compared a Unisaw and a Jet side by side. The salesman walked over and told me not to try to raise or tilt the blade on the Unisaw. The trunion was broken. That was the first time I had heard of that problem but have 8 or 9 times since. Delta blamed the trucking companies and yet Grizzly, Jet, Powermatic, and others were not having this problem. I suppose you could say the truckers were targeting Unisaws. LOL. I think 2 or 3 years ago Delta finally admitted that the trunions were not being properly torqued during assembly at the factory.

That is the way I under stand it. The trip was just too hard on the Unisaws.

Absolutely, Unfortunately the Deltas were not being treated that badly.

Reply to
Leon

OK - I get it now. But you posted the comment under the underwear portion. At least I got a good laugh out of it.

Actually, when I lived in Florida, I frequented the local Salvation Army and Goodwill stores quite a bit - not for cloths, but hardware. Unfortunately, I rarely found anything worth buying. There are no stores near where I live now - and it would require a trip into downtown - a place I try my best to never go.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

Leon,

I have a great deal of respect for you through reading your posts but in this case you have been mislead by someone. I've read the threads on this before and there has been much misinformation.

There has never been a problem with the torque setting at the factory on the trunion bracket bolts or any other improper assembly methods. This comment has been posted a number of times and regardless of the original source, it is not true.

The package design has been ISTA tested with the appropriate inclined plane, straight drop and vibrations tests at an independent lab. It holds a transit tested rating. Even so, trunions would ocasionally break in shipment even when the package looked fine on arrival.

In testing to try to find out why they were breaking the only way the trunions could be broken was to tip the unit over and have it land solidly on the front table edge. When this happened there was no packaging damage, the internal damage was concealed. You can't imagine how many sets I've observed broken during that testing process. It is kind of sickening to keep tipping a saw over just to see if you could get a statistical read on what would break.

Changes made a number of years ago were to specifically address this issue. The red motor strap was removed, not to save money but because it was creating another problem. freight dock drivers would drive up on a running pickup and slam fork lift masts into the relatively unprotected end bell of the motor, breaking the end bell and sometimes the motor bracket. The change was to drop the motor down as far into the cabinet as possible, supporting it on the dust chute, to protect it and also to lower the center of gravity to make tip overs less likely.

A device called a tilt watch was added to the package alerting a distributor to not accept the package from the freight carrier if the device had been activated. The only way it could be activated is if the freight dock person had tipped it over.

The only design change on the trunion brackets and trunions was to increase the cross sections where there was breakage and to increase any radii to eliminate the notch effect on impact. There has been no reduction in the specifications for chemical or mechanical properties of the iron as was suggested in some old threads.

There were a number of other changes to the pack to improve the shippability. And after any change the unit was transit tested again by an independent lab.

A broken internal component is a small percentage of returns. Most are minor (cosmetic) freight damage or internal warehouse damage or distributor resets. Many come in and the refurb diagnosis indicates no apparent reason. However, the refurb process is outstanding. You will get a good saw if you buy refurb. My everyday use unisaw is a reconditioned unit.

Why post now? It was/is a company policy not to respond to posts on unmoderated news groups. I no longer work for the company and I do not represent them with this post. It is, however, the truth.

Frank

Reply to
Frank Boettcher

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