Do you really want to buy used underwear?
I mean, someone else's 'boys' have been in there... ;-)
There may be a law that prohibits selling used underwear, I've never
seen any - but I could be wrong. Perhaps it's that no one buys it so
they don't bother putting it out.
OK - I get it now.
But you posted the comment under the underwear portion.
At least I got a good laugh out of it.
Actually, when I lived in Florida, I frequented the local Salvation
Army and Goodwill stores quite a bit - not for cloths, but hardware.
Unfortunately, I rarely found anything worth buying. There are no
stores near where I live now - and it would require a trip into
downtown - a place I try my best to never go.
OK, Off Topic Crap. But...
While I have been verbally lamenting the loss of US industry, don't
get the idea I am a Nationalist. I buy products from Germany, Italy,
France, England and even Japan and other developed, economically
mature countries without *too* much chagrin.
What I resent is the unlevel playing field that Chinese products
represent, and the total collapse of our own industries as a result.
I have no problem with the Chinese people, but I do not trust the
Government nor their intentions. Their quiet build up of arms and
technology, continuing human rights issues, environmental chaos, and
their not so secret desire to become a world empire once again leads
me to believe that our pandering is a bad thing for us and the world
And they certainly have no intention of ever buying our products in an
open marketplace - they shun ours and develop their own.
A few examples:
DVDs? No way, the Chinese government promoted the internal
development of CVD and refuses to enforce foreign copyrights.
Cars? Ha! Don't even go there, we can't even sell them to Americans.
Machinery? Well, we don't make anything anymore - other than military
weapons. The Japanese have dominated the robotics industry. And they
already make everything else.
Computer Software? Double Ha-Ha. Bill Gates is fuming at this very
minute - millions of bootleg copies of Windows are in use already.
And, they have developed their own Linux based O.S.
What is left to sell them? Food? I bought a gallon bottle of apple
juice at Kroger the other day, and on the side of the bottle, in tiny
little letters, was stamped "Imported from China". I took it back and
raised hell. The last thing I'm going to drink is a cadmium, mercury,
PCB, etc. filled bottle of apple juice from China.
And why didn't we embrace the Russians with as much zeal as we have
the Chinese? After all, they attempted to embrace democracy and
capitalism, and we snubbed them. And as a result, arms and nuclear
materials have spread worldwide, and they are near chaos. Not very
good democracy building, if you ask me... Even though the old Soviet
blok countries are inching forward, with companies like Groz and such,
they certainly haven't received the economic boost we handed China.
While I'm obviously not a foreign affairs guru, it makes me wonder
what the hell we are doing - Well, actually I do know... $$$$$$$$$
Avarice reigns supreme. :-\
We've a Prestige 'Aroma', dual, non sissy, full Monte, four banger bagel
toaster for about four years that I thought was a pretty damn good toaster
because that sucker has a timer SO F**&ING GOOD that it pops up PERFECTLY
toasted bread the EXACT _same_ second that my two morning eggs are done to
... until I read your post, that is. I just turned the damn thing over
(spreading crumbs all over the place in the process ... thanks a lot) and
DAMN me if it ain't <gasp> "Made in China"!
Now I feel screwed, despite the fact it's performed flawlessly for all that
Jeeeezuss, what's this country coming to?!?
Swingman (in 882dnXJ4fJ7ea firstname.lastname@example.org) said:
| Jeeeezuss, what's this country coming to?!?
You made me look. The kitchenAid (a Whirlpool brand) on our counter
claims to come from St. Joseph, Michigan. I have another in my
consulting kit that I bought in a Philly WalMart for $14.95 (along
with a similarly priced rice cooker) that I can't imagine coming from
fron anywhere other than China.
The KitchenAid toaster has an LED "toastedness" display, but doesn't
do a noticably better job (repeatable result, even-toasting, etc) than
the $85-cheaper Chinese product. Both of 'em are a PIA when it comes
to emptying the crumbs [thank you very much for the reminder!]
But the only conclusion that this discussion leads to is that some
Chinese factories can produce _some_ things less-expensively than
American factories can. If you're a toaster production line assembly
person being paid $20/hour (based on seniority) to put the four bottom
screws through the plastic feet, that's probably disturbing.
The word "some" above is important. There's stuff _not_ coming out of
Chinese factories yet that _is_ produced here. We can either complain
about how they've learned to do some of the things that we learned
sooner, or we can focus on providing the world with the things that
they can't produce less expensively (yet).
The really important question has to be: Is there a scenario in which
everyone does that business activity they do best so as to produce a
synergy of American and Chinese (and ...) efforts?
I'm fairly well convinced that win-lose strategies utlimately produce
only lose-lose results.
It would seem that the world has shrunk to the point where we're
obliged to start learning how to "play well with others" - and to
remember that we don't own all the toys nor make all the rules.
Fortunately, excellence is still treasured everywhere.
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Ba r r y (in email@example.com) said:
| On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:57:31 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
|| Swingman (in 882dnXJ4fJ7ea firstname.lastname@example.org) said:
||| Jeeeezuss, what's this country coming to?!?
|| You made me look. The kitchenAid (a Whirlpool brand) on our counter
|| claims to come from St. Joseph, Michigan.
| I've seen tons of stuff labeled "packed in USA", on the box, and the
| device inside is labeled with the actual country of origin.
Me too. This was on the back of the toaster itself. The box is long
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Since toaster flipping is a popular hobby, I took a close look at mine. It
does say KA in Michigan, but the bottom of the label also says Made in
China. I'd be surprised if there are any made in the US in the past 10
At work we pack a lot of products in large poly bags. The best thing to
seal them with is a Teflon coated household iron. I buy Black & Decker.
When I first started buying them 15 years ago, they were $20 to $23
(origins unknown). Now they are $13. What I don't understand is that I was
willing to pay 20 bucks, so why go through a lot of contortions to sell them
I've been looking to upgrade my TS for awhile now. I've been eyeing
the 1023S for awhile, so when I saw your post asking about the Unisaw
for $1299, my first thought was no, but I don't have experience with
either to advise from actual use. Although, I did read some reviews
from some very impressed people on Amazon regarding the 1023S, so I
would have a hard time spending an extra $400 (or $375 for the SL) on
a refurbished Unisaw.
Many of the pros here could probably justify the extra $400, but for my
budding shop I'd rather put that extra $$ on a Grizzly 14" band saw.
There's delivery charges to consider as well. The local Unisaw dealer
won't charge you freight.
I used the older 70's vintage Unisaws in college and at a friend's shop.
When I started shopping to upgrade to a cabinet saw 4-5 years ago I was
pretty much predisposed to the Unisaw. After looking at newer Unisaws I
decided to expand my search. They weren't what they used to be and frankly
they haven't improved since (Handwheel brake nuts for example).
My final decision did come down to Unisaw, Grizzly 1023S and the Jets. The
1023 won based on value and the fact it reminded me so much of the earlier
Unisaws. This included both visual and tactile impressions (smooth
handwheels, tabletop machining/flatness, specifications, sound, vibration,
etc.) I do believe the Unisaw is still a fine machine but I cannot
personally justify the extra hundreds of dollars for the brand name. My
machine has served me well for four years, requires very little adjustment,
and Grizzly delivery support is great. I have never had to use their
BTW - Grizzly will probably provide the names of up to two recent customers,
in your area, who have made recent purchases of a 1023 (and who have agreed
to talk to folks like you). This service, plus a trip to the Springfield
store, won me over.
I hear ya - that funky T thing is a departure from the nice old knobs.
I hear you again! I've always wanted a Unisaw, but when it comes to
laying out cold, hard cash - they worry me these days. Still, I
prefer to buy American products and support my neighbors whenever
possible - but I am tiring of being burned by that desire.
It's getting to the point where when I see Made in USA, it's worse
garbage than the Chinese crap - which is steadily improving.
I live in the SE, and there are no Grizzly dealers. Makes it more
difficult to access their products. But the 1023 looks like a very
I have a Unisaw and I love it, but problems such as a warped extension
table and slightly warped left wing have left me wondering if I would
ever purchase another Delta product. My DJ-20 joiner has a small pit in
the outfeed table. Not enough to take it back, but the quality
assurance just wasn't there. I'm not sure you'd be any better off with
a Grizzly. I've heard horor stories from many fellow woodworkers with
various brands of tools, and I'm wondering if buying tools is getting
to be a crap shoot. The folks who seem to get it right, in my opinion,
these days are the Canadians. The quality of tools from Canada is to me
impressive. Just my opinion.
I have a Delta X jointer - I was lucky, but many had problems with
warped fences. My contractor saw had a table that was so warped, it
left a wave on the end of a cut board. This was years ago, and the
first tool I purchased - so it took me a while to figure out what was
wrong. I ended up grinding the thing by hand to true it up. They do
seem to have a problem with rushing green castings into production too
soon. And the customer service has really deteriorated. They used to
respond quickly to warranty parts replacements, but the last time I
called for a warped bandsaw wheel on a brand new 14" Delta, I never
got the parts. Called again, still never got the part. I bent the
damned thing true myself in order to use it, and just gave up on them.
The same dealer also carries General. Their left tilt contractor saws
and the 650s are good saws but I hear bad things about their support
and manuals. And I'm not too certain about the availability of
accessories like snap-in splitters and zero clearance inserts. Their
fence is a nice Canadian made Beis clone.
I hear great things about the 1023SLX Grizzly, but really horrible
stories about the delivery process. Much down time and broken/damaged
parts from freight handlers. They DO seem to respond quickly with new
parts, no questions asked. And the massive carriage and handwheels
action on the 1023 is impressive. But I've never cut wood on one...
I bought the new Porter Cable 2 1/4 HP router kit when it first came
out, and what a pile-o-crap full of Chinese parts. Shoulda gotten an
old, used 690...
Manufacturing, Products and Support are failing miserably in this
country. If something isn't done - like killing off some bean
counters and greedy Wall Street investors, we are going to become a
real third rate country. We've already lost the number one spot.
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