Refurbished Unisaws

I thought so... ;-) That's OK, however. I have a shop full of Delta stuff - along with a few Jet, and a couple Dewalt pieces. The blue Borg used to carry Delta, and I bought a fair amount of it there - and at Highland Hardware. But they have begun to push some horrid house branded stuff called Tradesman - what a bunch of Bad Chinese Crappola!

It IS the classic woodworkers saw. I just fear that Delta is riding more on their reputation rather than quality these days... They are most certainly not the only company doing this - it's a tough marketplace - but I hate to see it happen. Damned bean-counters and Wall Street driven decision makers are ruining this country. Not to mention idiot consumers who can't judge quality and shop only for price.

That's what the vendor claimed - Not returned customer units, but defunct dealer returns. But aren't the newer tables cast in China?

Sadly, it's looking that way... We are losing it to so many other countries. And when we lose all of our manufacturing capabilities, we lose the ability to defend our way of life.

JMHO,

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G
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Fwiw, it would be in error to presume China cannot or does not produce a quality product. It would also be in error to presume all product that comes from China is quality. Same for Taiwan, where most (all?) cabinet saws are at least in some part now made.

It?s hard to talk about ?made in ?? without getting into politics. Anyone that watches the global political and economic landscape is aware there is a serious problem with China?s robust and stable economy, global distribution network, securing deep-water shipping port around the world, her buying of gold on the international monetary market, and our trade deficit with that country. It affects not only our nat?l security, but global security as well. China wants to take over the world and she is now well placed to do so economically, and thus improving her chances militarily.

Personally, I boycott anything marked ?made in China?, been doing so for most of two decades, but it?s getting harder and harder to get around.

Reply to
joe2

That would be the way to do it, if you had the time. Get a bargain on a vintage unisaw, have the top flatground, buy a modern motor and link belts and off you go. The first thing I was disapointed with when I received my unisaw a couple of years ago was the thickness, or thiness, of the base sheetmetal. I haven't looked at older unisaws, but they must be thicker.

Reply to
rickluce

When have you heard this? I can't recall anything but good stories about their deliveries in the past couple of years.

j
Reply to
mogura

No. The table will either be from a foundry in Sweetwater, TN machined by the fine people in Tupelo, MS, or from a foundry in Waupaca, WI, machined by a subcontractor in North Alabama. Depending on the time frame of the machines original manufacture and whether the table was replaced.

Reply to
Frank Boettcher

About a year ago we needed a toaster. They range in price from $8.00 to $250. The only one not made in China was the $250 Dualit from England. I could not justify the extra $200 so I had no other choice.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

It would be, if you could FIND one. In these parts, I can't find much of anything other than used, broken Ryobi and B & D tools. And the price Redmond gets for a "vintage" Unisaw is pretty steep. Here is an example - $750 - ouch!

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lot-o-work to get this usable...

I'm not really into restoring old machinery at this point, although I did restore old cars in my youth. And the stories of the widow selling off the "old saw" in the basement for $300 just ain't happening - at least not for me.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

Well, it's good to know that "something" is still made in the USA. There is so darned little of it anymore.

I grew up in the electronics industry, and watched as it deteriorated to it's current non-existent state. Plants closed nationwide and moved to Mexico and Asia. Eventually the names were sold off to Korean, French, and Chinese companies - there are none left.

I still have work clothes made in the USA, ragged and full of holes, because I refuse to buy Chinese textiles, jeans and tennis shoes. And these idiots who pay $75 for a sneaker with a "star" endorsement aren't helping - same crappy Chinese shoes that cost $4.00 to manufacture. Wall Street loves it, I don't. As a nation, we are digging our own economic grave. The rich aren't concerned - they've found a new source of slave laborers that don't sue, demand heath care, environmental stewardship, or decent salaries. While the ranks of the poor and unemployed just keep swelling.

8,600 US companies have been sold to foreign interests in the past 10 years for $1.3 Trillion. The US imported $617 billion more than it exported in 2004. This money acquired by foreign countries is not used to buy our merchandise as we manufacture very little that other countries want. They are using it to buy many of our major companies like Chrysler, Amoco Oil, Arco Oil, Citgo - in addition to entire industries - 69% of the movie industry, 81% of the cement industry, 100% of the TV manufacturing industry, and 8,600 other major American companies in the last 10 years.

That $617 Billion equates to approximately $1.25 Million per minute flowing into foreign hands 24 hours a day / 7 days a week. In October, the deficit rose to $59 billion, about $1.1 billion more than in September.

I can only hope I live long enough to see the world stabilize on a level playing field - before China (and others) have ALL of our capital and we deteriorate into another has-been, third world country.

Can't happen here? Right - History reveals a different reality. Many an empire has fallen in the shifting sands of time... Misplaced National Pride, Arrogance and Denial isn't helping one iota.

Those 'fine folks' in Tupelo, MS, along with millions around the country, are losing their jobs to outsourcing, and don't have much in the way of realistic alternative employment. Jobs at McDonalds and Holiday Inn just don't cut it.

Thanks for the info,

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

I hear you - we faced the same situation very recently. Our trusty old US made toaster oven finally gave it up after 20 odd years, and I couldn't fix it due to parts unavailability. Looked high and low, but could not find anything made outside of China. Ended up paying too much for a crappy GE Toaster Oven from China that I fear is going to burn the house down. I hate it - it's crap. But what choice did I have?! None.

I wore ragged jeans for years before the seams literally left my ass hanging out in the wind because the last US manufacturer (Wrangler) moved from the US to China - and I refused to buy their product anymore. I finally broke down in a moment of weakness and bought a pair, and they sucked! You can blame Wal-Mart and other economic pressures for that.

Underwear? Used to buy Fruit of the Loom - when they moved to China, I stopped buying them. I still wear underwear, full of holes, that were Made in the USA. But I don't know what I'm going to do this winter - I fear they won't make it another winter... I guess an alternative is to go Commando... but it sure is cold.... brrr....

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

OK, Off Topic Crap. But...

While I have been verbally lamenting the loss of US industry, don't get the idea I am a Nationalist. I buy products from Germany, Italy, France, England and even Japan and other developed, economically mature countries without *too* much chagrin.

What I resent is the unlevel playing field that Chinese products represent, and the total collapse of our own industries as a result.

I have no problem with the Chinese people, but I do not trust the Government nor their intentions. Their quiet build up of arms and technology, continuing human rights issues, environmental chaos, and their not so secret desire to become a world empire once again leads me to believe that our pandering is a bad thing for us and the world in general.

And they certainly have no intention of ever buying our products in an open marketplace - they shun ours and develop their own. A few examples:

DVDs? No way, the Chinese government promoted the internal development of CVD and refuses to enforce foreign copyrights.

Cars? Ha! Don't even go there, we can't even sell them to Americans.

Machinery? Well, we don't make anything anymore - other than military weapons. The Japanese have dominated the robotics industry. And they already make everything else.

Computer Software? Double Ha-Ha. Bill Gates is fuming at this very minute - millions of bootleg copies of Windows are in use already. And, they have developed their own Linux based O.S.

What is left to sell them? Food? I bought a gallon bottle of apple juice at Kroger the other day, and on the side of the bottle, in tiny little letters, was stamped "Imported from China". I took it back and raised hell. The last thing I'm going to drink is a cadmium, mercury, PCB, etc. filled bottle of apple juice from China.

And why didn't we embrace the Russians with as much zeal as we have the Chinese? After all, they attempted to embrace democracy and capitalism, and we snubbed them. And as a result, arms and nuclear materials have spread worldwide, and they are near chaos. Not very good democracy building, if you ask me... Even though the old Soviet blok countries are inching forward, with companies like Groz and such, they certainly haven't received the economic boost we handed China.

While I'm obviously not a foreign affairs guru, it makes me wonder what the hell we are doing - Well, actually I do know... $$$$$$$$$ Avarice reigns supreme. :-\

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

Well, you could take a trip up to see us in Canada. We've got original home grown fur polar bear underwear. Guaranteed down to -50°F. And if you're really lucky, you might find one or two 4" bear claws still attached to the underwear. Also guaranteed to make sure you wake up quick when dressing first thing in the morning.

Reply to
Upscale

Sounds like you had company that night, and attempted to don the wrong furry thing the next morning. And there is one thing I *don't* want near my genetic jewels, it is a resentful 800lb bear and a sharp set of 4" claws. Nothing could be worse after a 4 bear night, eh?...

But seriously, (if that is possible at this point), I don't think polar bear underwear would be very comfortable in the SE US. It's not THAT cold... and would most likely look like I had a severe sphincter malfunction.

Man, has THIS drifted off topic!

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

The first are only responding to the second.

But then again, consider Toyota.

Toyota is a case where most of the product line costs more than the competition, but generate a real sentiment of getting what you pay for. Comparing a Corolla to a Cavalier, a 4Runner to a Trail Blazer, a Tacoma to a Colorado, a Malibu to a Camry, and a Prius, to well... NOTHING, it's very easy to see why one company is growing in leaps and bounds and the other is dying. One pays engineers, the other pays marketeers.

We'll never know if companies like Delta had stuck to their quality guns, and occasionally showed some fresh ideas and innovation, if the purchaser would have stuck to them.

Companies like Grizzly and Jet have not only built cheaper products, but in some cases, more innovative tools at increasing levels of quality with better end user support.

Compare old imported iron to the current offerings. It's all kind of like comparing a '75 Corolla to a new one. No matter if it's cars or tools, consumer markets are moving targets.

Barry

Reply to
Ba r r y

Not necessarily. I look for things that will last - for eons. If I can't find quality, and have to buy cheap crap - then I go directly to the source. Why support a lethargic firm and it's overpaid CEO and marketing department when it does not innovate, but only rests on it's past successes - successes that usually resulted from a lack of competition.

These days, however, in an attempt to squeeze every dime out of each sale, so that greedy investors can quickly collect huge dividends for essentially doing nothing, they close the local plant and move it overseas. Does this result in a lowering of the price? Not usually, just greater profits. This short sighted mentality is destroying our economy - whether originating from investors, CEOs, or politicians.

I find it interesting that, for instance Delta, has sold basically the same Unisaw for 40 odd years. They change the handwheels, paint color, advertising BS - but the product hasn't changed substantially. They stand frozen like a deer in the headlights, fearful of making any substantial changes, for fear of loosing what reputation they have left. Instead of boldly forging ahead to improve the product through simple creative thought. Leave the basic mechanism alone - it works. But update the dust collection (Dewalt), improve the off switch and it's location (Jet), improve the horrific guards and splitter assemblies (numerous aftermarket companies) - or God forbid - do something radical like improve safety (SawStop). Cripes, those cast iron molds and metal bending machines must be paid for by now. Innovate - or someone else will.

See? I warned you...

Targets. Hmm - I wish I could get away with using them as targets. ;-)

I bought a blown up '68 Toyota back in '74 and rebuilt the engine for my sister - long before anyone considered foreign import cars a threat. I could tell we were in trouble. If they hadn't been so damned ugly, they would have been more of a threat. But they have fixed that nicely, Thank You. Incidentally, that '68 Toyota ran for over 300,000 miles, and finally died in 1986. Never gave a minutes trouble until then.

Later,

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

Interesting you pick Toyota. Many of their cars are built in the US too. As is some industrial products like forklift trucks (I've bought 4 of them). My plan was to "buy American" but the American brand had imported engines and the foreign brand was made in Kentucky so that idea had no merit. In side by side comparisons, Toyota was the preferred truck by all that test drove them in our plant.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Well Delta has had a problem with Unisaws in the last 7 or 8 years. The factory was blaming the shippers and apparently they have finally admitted to improper assembly methods. Trunions have been breaking at what I would call an alarming rate. If the saw looks like new you have ask yourself why it had to be refurbished as it should have lasted many many years. I would say it is a good bet that the trunion had to be replaced. Something to thhink about.

Reply to
Leon

Deliveries of wrecked equipment from Grizzly was a serious problem a few years ago.

Reply to
Leon

The fact that they're built in the US, does that mean that the construction materials are of higher quality or the assembly methods are superior? Perhaps both? Considering that it's owned by Toyota, what's to stop management from making sure that both these aspects of construction are the same as might be done in their overseas plants? ~ cheaper make?

The same questions apply. Did they prefer them because of construction quality, assembly quality or perhaps both?

Reply to
Upscale

I think he was indicating that the quality remains high despite the fact that they are built in the US. Edwin was commenting on Barrys comparison of Japaneese Owned products to US owned products. Edwin pointed out that many Toyotas are built in the US. I think the Japanese products are superior regardless of country of origin because of engeneering and QC. I do not doubt that the US can build a great product as long as the design is great.

Reply to
Leon

Visit your local thrift shop - it may be used but usually is still in good working order and you will benefit the group that they are supporting. . .

BB

Reply to
BB

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