Over the years I have seen a number of Unisaws...both old and new.
I have also heard a number of owners tell me why their saw was better than the other.
Now I have the possibility to buy an Unisaw and have the opportunity to buy either a newer or older saw locally...so now it's time to sort through the truth from the hype.
Which would you choose...older or newer, why and what would you pay for them?
Finally if you were checking out an used Unisaw, what would you check?
Thanks
TMT
I would lean toward older - 8 to 10 years old or older. I started the search for a Unisaw about 5 years ago pretty much predisposed to Unisaw. My expectatioins were based on Unisaws I used in a friends shop and in a college-level cabinet class. I found out they had changed. They have changed more during the past couple of years. I ended up not buying one because they seemed overpriced.
Just an example: Check out the hand-crank locks on older vs newer. Also table finish seems better on older saws. While it might be possible, I was having trouble pricing just a saw because I didn't have room for extended rails and side table. The side tables seem flimsy. The fences are still good but you can get good fences, or aftermarket fences for other machines.
RonB
IMHO the old ones are better. Again IMHO nothing since 1999 is better. There have numerous reports including me witnessing a Unisaw delivered new with broken trunions. This problem was an incorrect torqueing procedure at the factory according to Delta. This went on for several years before Delta quit blaming the shipping company and admitted responsibility. When I was in the market 6 or 7 years ago I compared Jet directly to Delta side by side. I bought the Jet.
This problem was an incorrect torqueing procedure at
Absolutley not true and I don't know why you keep posting this garbage, every time the subject comes up. Please tell me who "according to Delta". It might add credibility to your claim.
This went on for several years before Delta
Absolutely not true. Broken trunnions the result of a specific knock down by either the shipping companies (multiple, Delta used many), or in some cases I'm sure, a tip over in the distribution center after it was moved from Memphis to Jackson, TN. I watched many trunions broken as we tried to purposely break them by trying every type of drop and tipover possible.
If you preferred the Jet saw that is fine. That's why there are choices. But don't post lies about the other choices.
Frank
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
What you're asking, _may be_ the wrong question.
Sure, a well-kept, older saw _may be_ a 'better' saw, if you can find one, at a reasonable price, in a reasonable location, in a reasonable time frame, for your needs.
But how much time are you going to spend in the search? And is the search part of the fun of your hobby? For some folks it is, and that's just fine. It wasn't for me, so I slid some plastic across the counter at a local dealer 4 or 5 years ago, and they put a new saw in my truck, after checking to see that it had arrived in a happy condition.
And I've been happy with it since then.
Are there better saws out there? Yes, I saw a really nice Altendorf last weekend, and almost every Powermatic I've seen looks pretty sweet. A few of the older Unisaws are pretty rough, but most look like they still do the job, after a hard life.
Were I buying today, the saw I'd buy would most likely be something other than a Unisaw, though. Current uproar in the company has made for a lot of uncertainty. Probably a Powermatic, or one of the Canadian Generals...
But still new. I'm like that. YMMV.
Patriarch
"Too_Many_Tools"
IMHO - Either one. My fathers Unisaw is an older and mine is newer. They both work great. I would buy the one that checks out the best. Look for broken or chipped corners. This may indicate it was dropped. Take a 24" straight edge and check the table for flatness. Run each and listen for bearing noise. Run the trunion from stop to stop (up and down and tilt) and feel for backlash and effort. Take a dial indicator and check for arbor runout. (Use a new or known flat blade.) Finally check the motor for heat generation and noise, listen carefully at startup and feel for full speed vibration.
If none of the above is possible, buy the one taht makes you feel good.
Dave
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IIRC Charles Self reported this. And yes it is true. Call Delta for you self.
No other company had the problems with broken trunions like Delta did. Jet did not have problems, nor Powermatic, nor Grizzley, Craftsman. Common sense points to Delta having the problem unless you believe that the shipping companys had it out for Delta and tried to only damage their units. For that matter it was often reported that Grizzley TS's arrived upside down with no truniopn damage. If a particular brand cannot survive the shipping while the competition does, I DONT WANT IT.
The Delta had a broken trunion also. I did not prefer Jet prior to seeing that some Unisaws were incapable of bein gshipped withoput damage. I was personally contacted by Delta regarding a Unisaw with a broken trunion setting at a local dealer. He claimed shipping also. Well Yes it was shipping, the same shipping that delivers all the other brands.
Call Delta? Call who in Delta? I ran the factory that you are accusing of a bad torque parctice and are posting on this site that Delta told you that. Who in Delta told you that? If there was a problem with the torque practice or specification, I would have been the one to report it as I did many other problems that occurred during my tenure.
Product was ISTA transit tested. Do you know what that means? It means it has to pass a series of tests that simulate extreme but normal handling in shipping. Tests like inclined ramp, straight drop, and truck vibration tests. Pack passed without incident.
There is no doubt trunions were broken. It came from tipovers onto the front edge of the table sliding off forks. That is not normal handling. And neither you nor I have any meaningful statistics on the other the competitors saws shipping damage rates.
And it is Delta's responsibility to the customer, regardless of the bad handling practices by the shipper, and every customer who was affected was made whole or offered the opportunity to be made whole. Your purchase choice is your choice, but I resent you continuing to post, as you have for years, that the "factory" was not properly torquing the units and that was causing broken trunnions. It is not true and it is an insult to the many fine people who built those machines.
Frank
If you ran the factory then this should not be news to you unless you ran the factory before the problems started or simply went with an internal degree of defect acceptability. I have absolutely no reason to fabricate this information and no reason to do ill will towards Delta.
I do not know what it means and from a consumers point of view it means squat. Delta has and or had a trunion breakage problem while others did not. Call it what you want. Perhaps the Deltas just cannot take the abuse that its competition can. Perhaps that is why more and more Delta tools are being built outside the US. If the tool cannot make it to market with out a particular damage perhaps it is a package problem also. That is what I suspected until I read that it was a manufacturing problem. In the beginning I was giving Delta the benefit of reasonable doubt.
And again I am not saying that Delta is a bad product. I have worked on a Delta Unisaw and it is top notch but the fact remains that the Unisaws in the last 10 or so years have not had as good of a track record getting to the stores and customers undamaged.
Meaningful information to me is reading about complaints. I have heard of no trunion problems from other manufacturers. The fact that you are admiting that there were no doubts of broken trunions says something. Can you bring up instances where another manufacturer have had this particular inherent problem? And, why did this become a problem in the last 10 years or so, did the shipping company just decide to pick on Delta?
No doubt as any other manufacturer will, however 6 years ago when I looked at a Delta on the show room floor with a broken trunion the salesman indicated that the saw had been like that for months. Was Delta not interested in making the repair in a timely mannor or did Delta simply not have enough spare trunions to go around?
Resent it all you want but until a change is or was made in the manfacturing process the problem continued. If the factory ignored the obvious, read that as the company with broken trunion problems, then perhaps an insult is in order if that is the way want to read that. If it smells like a fish, looks like a fish, or tastes like a fish, it must be a f.... You might as well also focus your looking the other way on others here as many have witnessed a decline in the quality of Delta equipment and that was going on before loosing the prevlidge of building Delta machinery to Tiawan.
More garbage. First you say" Delta" admitted to a "torque process or specification problem" after blaming the shippers for many years. OK who in Delta admitted it? You mention Charlie Self? When did he work for Delta at the factory. Then you say you read it somewhere. Where? On this unmoderated usenet news group?
That is my only beef. What you say is just not true. Trunnions broke, but not from a torque process or spec problem.
You posted several years ago and several times in between. the last time I respectfully protested and posted the truth. But for some reason you keep reposting this erroneous information. I can't imagine why.
Frank
Thanks for the responses so far....
I am considering a couple of Unisaw with the cast iron dust cover on the side and with the smaller motors...any opinions on these?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
The mechanical working of the saw hasn't changed much if all since it was first manufactured in 1939ish.
The older saws have heavier cabinets and cast iron bases.
The older saws have 1750 motors. Newer are about 2x that. Fewer revolutions means less wear & tear on the motor.
The older saws are cheaper, but used. The good news is that cast iron & steel clean up pretty well.
A biesemeyer fence is $300 and fits both.
I think the older are a better deal. But like a few have said, it takes some time to find a decent one and some work to get it all nice & shiney
That goose egg motor cover is tough to find. Seen them, just the cover, going for between $200 and $300 on ebay. Not sure what you mean by "smaller motor," but if it is the 1 HP IR "bullet style" motor, power shouldn't be an issue unless you're going to put it in a heavy use commercial environment. That motor is a heck of a lot more powerful than a 1 HP motor you would find on a newer saw.
If the rest of the saw is in good shape, and the price is right, I would go for it.
Frank Boettcher wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
geez - "Lighten up Francis"
No, in this case I don't agree. Frank was one of those "many fine people at Delta" and I respect the fact that he feels defensive about the product and a loyalty to the company that produced it. I for one, am glad to have him on the wreck to sometimes clear the air. On Delta issues, he's Da Man.
So do I.
As an employee of a large, MBA-run, bureaucratic company, I might have an idea of what he's been through.
Frank is just like everyone else who wants to put out a product or service they can be proud of. Some corporations simply make that impossible for the guy in the trenches.
Frank did 'em one better in the trenches ... IIRC, he is an MBA also.
But that's OK, we can forgive him that one lapse. ;)
I has one o dem MBA's an ah kin tell ya that unless peoples be will ta pay fur dem products & services dat dem workers is bein prowd of deer ain't a gonna be no monies to be able to pay da workers wages.
But don't believe me.
Stop in your local wal-mart and watch the stupid masses going ape over the cheap stuff, all the while saving themselves right out of jobs.
For many years they (corporate) left us alone and it was possible to put out a good product that was respected and sold well. Then they decided to "get involved" and you know the rest of the story.
True, but I also have a few years working on the shop floor by the hour. I consider that to be at least equal if not of greater importance than the MBA in educational value.
A close friend, who is also an HR recruiter, once told me I should take that hourly experience off my resume as prospective employers would consider it irrelevant. I explained to him that if they considered it irrelevant, I didn't want to work for them.
This from a guy who does his roux in the microwave. ;)
Frank
So putting our MBA hats on, is it better to buy a newer or older Unisaw?
TMT
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