Rail & Stile for outdoor use?

[Dave]

All,

I have been asked to make a wood planter out of cedar. The plans call for using the legs as styles, a top and bottom rail are connected to the legs (stiles) using pocket screws. The 1-in. cedar boards are used as panels. To see an example, go to:

Here are my questions:

1. Are pocket screws a good choice to use on outdoor projects? They will attach the rails to the legs (stiles), the top frame to the box, and are used inside to create a bottom. M & T joints are better I'm sure, but take longer. Comments?

1. Is it wise to use rail & stile outdoors since moisture will collect in the bottom rail with no good way to get rid of it? I suppose weep holes could be drilled in the bottom rails, but I really doubt the effectiveness of that, not to mention the time. Comments?

Another cedar planter design that may not have the moisture/rotting problem is at:

However, it was not the choice...

Thanks, Dave

[nailshooter41]

Just a couple of thoughts. Depending on where you put the screws, they wil l be of little or no value. If you put them parallel to the ground and susp end the planter box on the legs using the screws, likely the screws will fa il. Pocket screws are not known for their weight bearing compression stren gth.

Unless you buy stainless screws, they will fail quickly from staying wet. The normal screws are not made to be used in construction that causes them to be constantly wet. They will rust out.

There is a reason that mortise and tenon is used in this kind of project. The wood literally has to rot out for the structure to fail.

I have made decorative planters before, and I lined the planters made for a commercial decorative accents with aluminum with joints of the liner seale d with elastomeric caulk. The ones used at the house were lined with heavy duty plastic.

Liners keep the wood protected. Don't over water and you won't have to wor ry about weep holes.

Robert

[hubops]

What size planter are you building ? < the second example you linked - is only 14.5 in. square > John T.

[Sonny]

1) If you are to fill the planter with dirt, then no. 2) If you are to place a potted plant (container) inside the planter box ( having a floor or not), then probably pocket screws would suffice for sever al seasons. Screws would accommodate easily changing the bottom rail, if/w hen need be; if/when it rots.

As to #2 above: If you opt to screw things together, you can seal the whol e of each board, including inside the pocket-screw holes, prior to assembly , if you are to seal the planter, at all. Sealing, this way, may help exte nd the pot life (sic), a bit longer.

Sonny

[Jack]

I would use pocket screws, but would put wood rails around the bottom screwed to the posts to hold the weight of the dirt. The pocket screws would easily hold all the rails as the horizontal pressure of the dirt would be nil.

I would use hardware cloth stapled to the wood rails around the bottom of the bottom of the planter if filling with dirt. Put a layer of leaves, then compost, then dirt.

If using pocket screws for the rails, plug the holes with putty or calk, or get stainless screws. If using mortise and tenon, use water proof glue.

[Dr. Deb]

#1 - NO #2 - YES

Pocket screws in something as soft as cedar, especially in an exterior setting, is just asking for failure. Rails and Stiles are fine, since you are using a rather weather resistant wood. I would make the joints mortise and tenon and put a very good exterior oil on the whole thing.

You will want some form of drain, merely spacing the bottom boards would be sufficient.