That contradicts the first of the two alternative definitions above--and isn't true, either.
That assumes the defect was detectable from a visual inspection or other indications. It's quite possible it wouldn't show up under tests normally available in a woodshop.
While certainly a large number of accidents are either wholly caused by or made significantly worse by carelessness of willful disregard for safe operation, it is certainly not the entire cause.
That said, caution is, in general, A Good Thing (tm)...
I gotta disagree, accidents are also caused by events that are totally not in your control. If you are laying in bed and a plane crashes in to you bedroom and you loose an arm, you were involved in an accident and there is no way that you could have prepared for that event. You could have a power outage loose your lights in your shop. The shop goes black and you cut your self. None of these accidents would have been your fault.
Simply getting out of bed in the morning sets your self up for a potential and unforeseen accident. Granted most of our mishaps are our own fault but many are not.
Many accidents happen as a lesson to point out that you are only human and there are greater powers involved that teach you lessons about the way you think about events. Whether you recognise those lessons or not is another matter.
The fact that you cut your thumb with a knife at 2:32 pm this afternoon was a fact that was going to happen before the day you were born.
I still say that all "accidents" are avoidable. Knowledge and skill will help you avoid mistakes. The couple in India did not have the knowledge, skill or equipment to avoid the meteorite, much of what they needed was not avaible to them, thus a mistake occured, resulting in them getting hit by a meteorite. Mistakes are not always avoidable with out the right knowledge skill or equipment but they are still mistakes . From each mistake we learn more on how to avoid it or in the case of the Indian couple encourage others to find ways to avoid the mistake, this some times takes long periods of time to learn what is needed.
Knowledge of the way the wood was dried and the type of wood would give you an indication of a problem, use of splitters or other devices on the TS would either solve or lessen the impact of this problem. If the wood may have internal stress that would cause it to close on the blade and you don't use a splitter (you should have gotten one with your TS) then you have made a mistake and the kick back is not an accident but caused by a mistake.
If I had
That would be a good way of doing it. I don't have the equipment so I look at the wood and based on my knowledge I use it or don't use it. Sometimes I'm wrong thus a mistake if there is a problem and not an "accident", If I was right then no mistake.
We often need the knowledge of others to help us avoid mistakes, if you go out of the house for the day you have probably listened to a weather man or made use of weather data suppled to you by someone else who has knowledge of the weather. If it is 30 deg below zero and you go out in shorts and a tee shirt it is not an accident but a mistake. You did not take advantage of knowledge avaible to you. The same applies to most of our actions in life. Mistakes and learning how to avoid them can be half the fun of doing anything including wood work.
So I am saying
When I reach that level all the fun will be gone. Untill then I will strive to make as few mistakes as I can and learn from the one I do make, and accept the results of my actions.
Now we are talking about mistakes by other people not in my control. These are still mistakes, just not made by me and which I could control the effect of on me. The power outage could be controled by the proper generator set up, very expensive though, the plane I have no control over except to locate in an area where there are no planes. Every event can be planed for whether natural or man made. Not doing mitigation for them is a mistake that can be avoided. There fore both of your examples are avoidable mistakes. Often the mitigation for an event is too expensive to allow for it. I do not mitigate for meteortie damage to my home, the odds of it happening are to great for me to worry about it, I do have earthquake insurance and have done earthquake mitigation to my home and community. My mistake for not doing full mitigation for all disasters both natural and manmade, but not an accident if I suffer from the results, just the effect of my mistake. You get up in the morning and you take your chances and live with your choices. Off the topic a bit, I spent 20 years writing mitigation and response plans for manmade and natural disasters. Some of them worked, others were delt with by politicians.
Well, you can say that, but it isn't true for any rational definition of "all" and "accident"...
This is simply preposterous. What _precisely_ was the "mistake"? That they didn't happen to have a yet-to-be-invented-at-the-time technique to monitor and track meteorites? How can that possibly be a "mistake"?
So now you have to go back to the sawyer and the kiln to pedigree every piece of lumber??? Just as preposterous.
A generator system can be hardned against a 10+megaton Nuke with EMP strike, this would definatly defend it against your average lightning strike. Not a cheap system but not as uncommon as you might think. No I don't have one and don't won't one, I will endure the results of that mistake when it happens. I have not said that you should mitigate against all hazzards just that you can if you are willing to. As far as the plane is concerned a properly built bunker would be one method of stopping that problem, I am sure that there are others if you want to look them up. You work on the problems that you feel are worthwhile to you.
"dpb" wrote in message news:f6emdk$ti2$ snipped-for-privacy@aioe.org...
The mistake was that they did not plan to protect them selves from a meteor strike. They did not study the conditions needed to prevent damage to themselves from a meteor strike and take actions to mitigate that event. Even with out "yet to be invented technology" there was much they could have done. They failed to take those measures and suffered the results of thier mistake. Preposterous no, You must do a threat assesment of your surroundings and pick which events you will prepare for based on the likelyhood of thier occuring and the level of damage you will suffer from them. If you figure wrong you have made a mistake. The indian couple did not rank meteorite threat as very high and did not take the proper steps to protect themselves from it, the mistake. The "yet to be invented technology" comment was ment to show that it is often hard to mitigate against a threat that is almost unknown or hard to predict. Prime example is Tornado warnings. I was taught that you can not predict tornados only the conditions from which they occur. Tracking a tornado was only done in a general way with out knowing precisely where it would go, and warning the public in the path of the tornado was almost imposible. Now we can predict very closely where a tornado may occur and when, we can track it to within a few hundred feet and predict its future path very closely. The public can be warned of it's approach in time to take shelter with out problems. Before the new technology we did a good job of lowering deaths due to tornados now we do a better job and will do an even better job in the future. Before the new technology you could protect yourself quite well from a tornado by gaining knowledge of what to look for and what actions to take to prevent damage to yourself, The same applies to nearly all events be they meteor strikes or tornados or TS kickbacks. The mistake is not in planning.
Now you have the idea! That would be a very good way to do it. If that is not possible then you look for signs that indicate problems, such as warping, bowing, skewing, cracking, type of wood mostiure content, etc.. Then you take measures to prevent the wood from closing on the blade. Things such as wedges in the kerf, spliters, riving knives, cross cutting the board to make shorter rip cuts, suit of armor what ever is needed or works for your condition to prevent injury from the kickback..
Just as preposterous.
Not if you want to prevent a mistake that could lead to an "ACCIDENT"
Now, you are changing your tune. You originally said that you did not have an accident in your shop and then commented that you have had lots of accidents. Even if the accident is caused by some one elses mistake and you are involved, you personally have had an accident whether it was your fault or not.
The power outage could be controled by the proper generator set
Every event can be planned for if you know every possible event. You being human like me should know that is impossible.
Not doing mitigation for them is a mistake that can be
Ok, tell me how you are going to plan and avoid the next accident. You knowing that all possibilities are preventable should know what is going to happen before it happens. If you don't know what is going to happen next illustrates an accident that you will be involved in.
I think you should face the fact that you are only human just like us. You have accidents because YOU cannot foresee events before they happen therefore you cannot plan for every possible event. That does not mean that you are at fault, or that you have made a mistake. There are events that happen that have only one explanation and that does not involve any human influence.
First you must do a threat assesment: What are the possible "accidents" that can occur from using this tool, walking under this light, standing in this location or what ever. What are the liklyhoods of this "accident" or event occuring? What is the damage that will occur if this event takes place? Second you rate the threats and start to mitigate the most likely down to the least likely. Third you plan actions to lesson the impact of the event if you were wrong in you mitigation efforts or unable to totaly mitigate the event.
This is done each and every time conditions change in any action you take.
For example:
You are ripping a board on a TS Threat: Kickback flying sawdust hitting you putting finger in blade and cutting your self Likely hood 1 Flying sawdust hitting you 2 Kickback 3 cutting finger Damage 1 little or none unless gets in eyes 2 Moderate to severe 3 severe Mitigation 1 Safety glasses or face shield, Dust collector 2 Blade guard with splitter, riving knife, wedges to keep wood from closing on blade, push sticks to help wood go past blade, antikickback device on saw etc.. 3 Keep saw blade at lowest possible level, blade guard, pushsticks, sawstop device on saw or sawstop saw
Response 1 Eye wash to remove sawdust, phone with 911 programed in 2 Place to sit down and recover to phone with 911 programed in 3 phone with 911 programed in or someone to take you to the emergency room
These are steps you take everytime you do anything. Most of the time you don't even know it but you do them at some level. Failure to plan for any event or possible event is a mistake and you learn from them, Threat assisment is learned, not knowing that a table saw can kickback is not the cause of an accident but the result of a mistake in knowledge. Why all the labels and warnings on tools? to educate you of possible hazards and allow you to do threat assisment and mitigation of your use of the tool. Response is the action you take when your plan failed for what ever reason. Many of the threads here are about this very subject, should I wear a leather apron to help lessen the effect of a kickback is about mitigation. How to prevent kickback is about threat assesment and mitigation. I dont know what the next "Accident" that will occur in my shop or life, I do know that I can lesson the chances of having one by learning and using that knowledge to prevent mistakes and use the mistakes I make to lesson the posibility of it happening again.
I have to do this same argument Friday to convince city/county officials of a possible gas explsion hazard from two propane farms and how to prevent the event from happening and if it does what the effect on the community will be. This has been good practice.
I am human but I do try to preplan for events (not always as well as I would like) with all the knowledge and skill I have. Those event that do not envolve human influence are not accidents but acts of God and are not in the realm of planning. I would not dare try to tell God how to do anything.
Precisely and because God is all knowing and in total control, EVERYTHING that happens is and or was destined to happen regardless of whether you think you are or were well prepared for an event or not. No amount of planning or preparation on your part is going to change the inevitable.
You should understand that being careful and taking preventative measures will NEVER be enough to prevent all accidents. Realizing this goes more towards accident prevention than believing that all accidents can be prevented. When you believe that all accidents can be prevented you come to a stopping point in your mind as to how much is enough to prevent an accident. When you know that you simply cannot prevent all accidents that you will be involved in regardless of how much you think you know you will be several steps ahead of where you are now in preventing a possible accident.
Speaking of preposterous... perhaps you'd explain exactly what you have in mind that they could have done to protect themselves from a chunk of rock moving eighteen thousand miles an hour.
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