BTW, did you know there are grades within the grades? For example, there is
US Choice but there is also US Choice+ and US Choice-. Same thing in the
Want to bet which your local super market is selling as USDA
You provided some interesting examples.
Even at BestBuy in the laptop section -- NONE with a solid-state drive
(which arguably most should have) and ALL with Windows 8 (except for
Apple's) which almost nobody seems to want.
Shoes? They still come in various widths. I wear 12EEEEEE. They're
not available everywhere but they are available. Amazon, for one.
Maybe where you live. I can get meat cut to order at any of the
supermarkets, here. There are butcher shops, too. I don't choose to,
often, because I'd rather not pay the price. Choice isn't just a cut
Nonsense. It's *all* economics. People choose not to pay for such
things, so they don't exist.
On 5/1/2013 12:22 PM, email@example.com wrote:
I am going to call you on that one, considering furniture, I seriously
doubt that most people today realize that there is better furniture to
be had. Most people that I have dealt with think they have good
furniture. They see how I build my furniture and that is generally all
they need to see to commission me to build for them.
Yep, that is soooo... true.
As someone who was raised on home built and second hand furniture, I did not
know how BAD conventional furniture was until I got out in the world and saw
it for the first time. I was amazed how flimsy a lit of it was. I remember
building some bookshelves that did not fit in a particular space. I gave
the bookshelves to my sister. She, and her house visitors, were amazed on
how "sturdy" the bookshelves were. That was over 25 years ago. Visitors to
her house, 25 years later, still remark on how "sturdy" those shelves are.
That only means one thing. There is a lot of crap out there and when people
run into something different, it is a bit of a revelation for them.
Another thing. I came to the big city and had access to hardware stores,
lumber yards, tools, classified ads, garage sales, etc. Far more resources
than I had growing up. So I started building. And immediately got lots of
criticism for ''too many fasteners", "too many braces", "too heavy"
furniture", etc. Apparently if you weren't building low quality, wobbly
stuff, you weren't doing it right!
People raised around crap go through a change when exposed to the good
stuff. I have been a corrupting force in this regard.
I mean, really, who sets out to build wobbly crap? Either you don't know
any better or you just don't care.
To expand upon this a bit. I think there is also a resource component to
these decisions... Generally, people would like book shelves made of the
most suitable materials with proven construction methods. However, the
reality is many lack deep enough pockets to make it happen... The competing
agendas of satisfying the needs for food, shelter, clothing, transportation,
education and entertainment command a higher weight in the allocation of
their finite financial resources than do book shelves. In those cases a
complete Ikea or Saunder unit, that may cost in total as much as one nice
cherry board, becomes the choice by economic necessity. Here it's a case of
satisficing versus optimizing and it can still be considered a rational
As you suggest, there is another group whom has the resources but not the
knowledge. That is where folks like us can help educate them. Perhaps not in
a know-it-all way but by example. The story here about the sturdy shelves
that people notice is a good example of that... Together the satisficing and
unknowledgeable may be guided to better, yet cost effective, solutions to
their furniture needs by folks here.
The don't cares... well... they may not be worth the breath or bytes.
However, maybe they would care if they understood better, which takes us
back to the above.
I've been giving a lot of thought to issues like this recently as concerns
my involvement with various organizations and their seemingly competing
agendas. Where I see a tremendous amount of commonality in my activities
others focus like a laser on what I see as relatively small differences that
can be ignored or influenced through discussion. I think we rec'ers can be
educators and transferors of knowledge, not only within the rec but to the
other circles in which we live.
Anyhow... enough of this thinking in bytes stuff for now. ;~)
There is one more segment that you didn't talk about, those that have
the means, but replace things every few years to change things up. They
are the fashionable types, and for them it's better to keep up then
spend on the better. The classics never go out of style...
I will have to disagree a little bit again. From repeated first hand
experience with customers, people generally would not know suitable
materials and proven construction methods if they knocked them upside
their heads. They still pay way too much for crap, I mean pretty to
look at but don't move it. As an example if you Google Amish furniture
store and go to one of those stores I believe you will find top quality
furniture that beats the pants off the pricing you would find most any
where else. I mentioned to Lee that I recently bought 6 Amish made
dining room chairs. They were $250 each. Not cheap but they come with
a life time warranty that I will probably never need and were very
competitively priced with much less quality name brand stuff.
When I was quoted the price for all 6 chairs I did not hesitate to
accept. That price above included delivery.
For twice this price, you would get it at an Amish Furniture store and
never have to worry about replacing. And again the Amish is delivered
assembled, this set is neither.
I know, twice as much but the much better choice.
THe Amish place we bought ours from delivers but wants $1.50/mile,
IIRC. That kinda puts it out of range, now, since it's 600mi. away.
;-) I will be ordering more pieces to fill out what we have, and
perhaps a breakfast set (pub table) but I'll have to pick it all up.
Amazing. I was shocked at their kitchens when we went through the
place a couple of years ago. The stuff wouldn't last five years. It's
a good place to buy butcher block, though.
On 5/1/2013 7:07 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Ahhh so you know... ;~) If you are not near a store that would be a
bummer. We actually found the chairs we liked at a store 200+ miles
away and there would be a delivery charge. Luckily we found the same
chair in a Houston Amish store.
Yeah, I know. I was contracting working in Ohio for a year. The
money was good and I was working 65 and 70 hour weeks, we went all-in
while we were there (got a handmade quilt for the bed, too). We
figured that we should add something to the family heirlooms. ;-)
They'll be around long after we will.
I think this actually fits with what I wrote... For those whom cannot
understand the difference even with some guidance there are myriad choices
of mediocre stuff available to them! We cannot take it personally when they
do so... ;~)
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
Stay a week in a house with and use handcrafted kitchen cabinets, then take
a stroll through a showroom at the Borgs with the KitchenMaid, et al
factory-made displays and I guarantee you will be startled by what you
missed/didn't notice the first time you saw the latter ... your eye will be
forever ruined in favor of the former.
And the shame of it all, I am not really impressed with the vast
majority of the stuff being offered, even the good stuff, with one
exception. I recently ordered 6 dining room chairs from an Amish
furniture store. These are well built, comfortable,and all solid wood
chairs. Not all Amish furniture is great but the worse is typically as
good as all the others best.
Several years ago we had an upper end furniture store that sold the
Mission style, Stickley brand furniture. From the front it looked nice
but it showed signs of being mass produced and the back sides looked
Our dining and bedroom furniture is all Amish (Mission style) Cherry.
Nice stuff but it wasn't cheap. It was about the same price as top
end furniture store stuff (about $15K for both rooms).
Does anyone really look at the back sides? I find that most stuff in
the furniture stores has a really cheap looking finish, even the top
of the line stuff. It seems that *dark* stain is back in, too. Ick!
That's what people want, though.
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