That is unfortunately something that is being lost in all this
greed-driven outsourcing: the fact that if it creates sufficient
unemployment a lot of people WON'T buy your product.
Regardless of how el-cheapo it might be produced in Outer Mongolia.
IOW, shoot yourself on the foot. Which is EXACTLY where this myopic
outsourcing "easy-profit" mania is leading us.
I have to admt I feel like a heel a bit arguing this subject with you.
I really feel we are at separate ends of the spectrum and we really
need to meet somewhere in the middle.
I understand what you are saying, in general, but the facts and
figures you write about happen to be living, breathing human beings.
And, at least in the IT industry, they are being used and abused
terribly all in the name of globalization. Sure, this practice may
help the bottom line but what price do you put on human beings?
I have included two recent articles about the subject. One, for sure,
is simply a beat writer for a newspaper and may not have any
credentials--I have no idea if he does or doesn't. The other is
biggie in the computer trade press (you can see his bio at
Since I use Google to access this newsgroup, I see the baove did not
come through as a link. Darn. I could publish it here if anybody
wants me to.
With the above in mind, here are the links to the two articles:
(Watch the word wrap!)
I am sorry if I seem bitter because, well, I am. I feel as though I
gave my livilihood away. Nay, I feel as though it was ripped away
from me by people who can not code nearly as well as I can.
Don't. Our differences of opinion are about ideas. They have
not been personal. We can disagree and be pleasant.
The fallacy in your argument is that these people are being 'used
and abused'. They aren't (unless fraud or force are being used
against them, in which case they should seek legal relief). They
are facing a changing world. That means they too have to change to
survive. If there aren't enought IT jobs to go around, then some
of us are going to have to find other kinds of work to do, get
retrained or whatever. Is it fun? No. But its necessary.
Survival is always the province of those who are most adaptable.
And now, a personal note:
I have a Master's in CS plus most of Ph.D. done. I have 20+ years of
experience as an engineer, developer, and leader of technology
organizations. I can't get a job. I haven't been able to for over
3 *years*. Frustrating? Yes. Bitter? No. Why? Because staying
employable is *my* responsibility, not the responsibility of the Universe.
I am likely going to have to take a position that is way outside my
preferred field just to survive. But you know what? I refuse to be
pissed off about it. Life is just too short to be bitter. I want
to savor every minute I can, no matter how crappy moments like this
are. It sounds really corny like some bad self-help book, but your
attitude about life drives your success. If you wallow in misery
and anger, you inhibit your own ability to succeed. The way you think
dictates the way you act. And the way you act determines how well
Tim Daneliuk firstname.lastname@example.org
We had a prime minister over here who for years tried to convince
us we had to become competitive when measured against countries
that sleep their workers under a banana tree and feed them banana peel.
His period in government is now remembered as the worst period of economic
mis-management ever in our short (200 year) history.
I'm just wondering...
It's not, it can't be, it will NEVER be good for the citizens.
It's all a load of pure unadulterated crap.
I'm from Earth, and our corporate executives are paid / bonused on
short term goals. Why is a short term solution a problem from the
executive suite / Wall Street angle?
Not to mention that many of us pee-ons buy mutual funds that put much
of the pressure on the executives to operate with a short term vision.
It is one F'd up, complicated conundrum. <g>
Not to mention - back closer to topic - tax laws which encourage landowners
to remove all timber to 6" MBH to get a tax break rather than pay for trees
I pay 5 times what commercial forest does, 10 times what state or national
forest does. Oh well, my youngest is already cruising for the timber he'll
harvest at middle age.
OK, I'll put the tax assessment into the firebox where it belongs instead of
the "to pay."
I couldn't begin to tell how scary outsourcing is. I have seen hundreds of
people with Oracle, Java, BEA, experience lose their jobs. Because of the
position I'm in I travel to all of the big companies and work with CIO,
Directors and EVERY company is outsourcing or is looking at it. Lou Dobbs
is a hero to me because he is standing up to this cancer. It is not just IT
jobs. It is friggin scary because they are good paying jobs.
You don't get it.... It is not about skills.. it is about $$$$$$$$
look at the payscale at the bottom of this article and honestly tell me if
you can pay your staff a living wage and compete with those salaries of off
shore. If you can, you should write a book, become a millionaire, and
retire to your dream shop. ;)
And I admit it. I am Scared. I have 20 years in IT and I survived major
layoffs the past 4 years at one of the largest software companies in the
world. I have excellent skills. But I don't have a cavalier attitude about
the IT industry as I once did.
As soon as SWMBO completes her masters and her teachers certfication and
begins working as a teacher I can quit my job and start my own business.
SWMBO used to be a Programmer Analyst before kids but decided it wasn't
worth it to go back in to the IT Industry.
Better check the market for teachers with masters. Masters degrees _must_
be paid premium scale here - union rules. Schools can get lots of certified
teachers at less cost . Junior colleges may hire, though.
My advisor warned me....
I think I *do* get it. I'm fending off the bean counters as we speak.
Dell's a good example - initial thoughts aligned with yours (it's $$ not
skills). After trying it for a while, they realized they can't afford
outsourcing their help desk.
Ahem. We CANNOT compete on salary! But we can compete! It's about *value*,
Yes, the pendulum will swing as the bean counters move stuff offshore. But
it'll come back when they realize there's more to quality software than
$3/hour Level 5 programmers.
Me too! 'Cept, I've got 25. Scared is good. Makes you aware of the
situation. Lying awake at night worrying about how we're going to fend off
this trend is a good thing. I *know* I can compete and survive this. Hell,
with a few hours of thought, I came up with a half dozen ways to *exploit*
That's good news! Congrats, especially to your wife - as we desperately need
more (mo' better) teachers.
I'll hang out in IT for awhile longer. Pay's pretty damed good, and I know I
can kick some Offshore Butt if the need arises.
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