OT: Two parties

[Mark & Juanita]

There is a bit of a distinction to that final statement and one that they make very clear to people taking CCW courses. The police carry to protect themselves and others. The private citizen OTOH carries to protect himself [and those near and dear to him]. Private citizens are under no obligation to become involved in a crime scene other than as a good witness, they may choose to become involved if they believe that someone's life is in danger. Police are obligated to become involved, even if it puts them in personal danger.

[Larry Jaques]

On 02 Feb 2010 14:11:27 GMT, the infamous Han scrawled the following:

The guy went for a walk in his residential area in broad daylight and was all of a sudden confronted by a charging 9' grizzly bear, 15' out. Luckily, he carried and had his very hot .45, killing the bear with a lucky shot before it could kill him. Pistols usually don't take down

1,000 pound bears. I tried googling it but didn't find it again.

-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw

[CW]

That must be the rational of the antigunners. They feel that they should die for the good of the community.

[LDosser]

Or they work in Portland, Oregon where SERT gets called out to deal with "potentially armed suspects", even After the police on scene have shot the suspect.

[keithw86]

mfTWnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]...

ob" it's too bad for you, but useful to the job of protecting

No, they believe that *you* should die for the good of the community.

[HeyBub]

Nope. Police are not obligated, by law, custom, or common sense to become involved. They often do but only because of their personal nature. My training sergeant told me you always drive slowly to a "fight in progress" call and hope it's over with by the time you get there.

On the other hand, there are those - police and civilian - who will rush to the sound of the guns.

[HeyBub]

To amplify, there is NO law requiring the police to protect anybody. Courts have consistently held that the police have NO duty to protect anyone.

The D.C. Court of Appeals actually said it is "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." (Warren v. District of Columbia). See:

DeShaney v. Winnebago County that any harm that come to a citizen is the sole responsibility of the the attacker, not an agency of the state for failing to prevent a crime Castle Rock vs. Gonzales where the Supreme Court held a police department cannot be sued for failure to enforce a restraining order actual JOB of the police is to catch the goblin, not protect society. That some protection accrues when the do-bad is taken off the street is a useful by-product, but certainly not the goal of the police.

[keithw86]

Correct. The police are not obligated to protect you in any way. This has long been established in case law. Their job is to document violations and apprehend the culprits after the fact. If they do happen to be there and decide to protect you, all the better.

Fools rush in...

[Steve]

Eh, you had to be there!

[HeyBub]

No, warriors rush in. We have a warrior class in this country. It exists in the shadows but its members recognize each other.

----- Only the hard and strong may call themselves Spartans.

Only the hard. Only the strong.

We march.

For our lands. For our families. For our freedom.

We march.

Into the Hot Gates we march. Into that narrow corridor we march. Where Xerxes numbers count for nothing.

Spartans. Citizen soldiers, freed slaves, free Greeks all.

Brothers. Fathers. Sons.

We march.

For honor's sake. For duty's sake. For glory's sake.

We march.

Into Hell's mouth we march.

Just there the barbarians huddle, sheer terror gripping tight their hearts with icy fingers... knowing full well what merciless horrors they suffered at the swords and spears of three hundred. Yet they stare now across the plain at TEN THOUSAND Spartans commanding thirty thousand free Greeks!

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:48:57 -0800, the infamous "CW" scrawled the following:

That's why I didn't shoot the Ma Deuce. A 10 y/o boy was having a grand old time on a big old sled of a gun (like Henry Bowman's cute little Lahti) while his dad went into hock.

-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw

[Larry Jaques]

On 02 Feb 2010 14:10:29 GMT, the infamous Han scrawled the following:

Of course I can't, especially re: street sales to gang members. I was offering advice to _you_. Right now, everyone who gets a concealed weapon is instructed before the license is issued. (I believe this is a requirement in all states.) And right now, most people who tell others to get a gun also recommend that they "GET TRAINING!"

You're more likely to need one in NYC (Manhattan), but whatever. Enjoy!

-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw

[keithw86]

Training is not a requirement for a CCW in Alabama (unless the $20 I forked over is considered to be "training"). Vermont has no permit and none required so no training is required there for CCW, either. Alaska has a voluntary permit to allow one to carry in reciprocal states, but no need for a permit otherwise.

...and less likely to get one.

[HeyBub]

Heh! There was a news report recently where a do-bad got into a street shoot-out with the cops. His weapon of choice was a MAC-10 and his shooting technique involved holding the gun sideways, rapper-style.

Now a MAC-10 doesn't eject the spent cartridges so much as it merely lets them mosey out out the way. The empty cartridge from his second shot stove-piped (got stuck in the bolt) and the police made him holy without benefit of ordination.

[chaniarts]

and there is a bill before the current legislature to remove the training requirement for a ccw in arizona.

[CW]

Thank rappers and Hollywood for teaching scum how to shoot as badly as possible.

[Swingman]

Did you see that bar shootout video a couple of months back?

Apparently dancing sideways on your tip toes, while holding the weapon rapper style, is an essential marksmanship technique in the 'hood.

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:00:02 -0800 (PST), the infamous " [e-mail]" scrawled the following:

OK, then add "almost" between "in" and "all states.", please.

True. What I was getting at is that learning how to shoot a gun is a skillset you pick up which will last your lifetime. Even if you don't own a gun, if you're walking downtown and a shootout happens all around you, you can safely pick up a downed weapon and defend yourself if need be. Without training, a person might never think to do that because they're still frightened of the "evil gun things." Until you think of a gun as a tool, all bets are off.

-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw

[Steve Turner]

I have a question:

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, WHEN IS THIS THREAD GOING TO DIE?!

I'm getting sick of ignoring the stupid thing already. (*)

Now GET A LIFE and go talk about something else, will ya?

Thank you.

(*) And yes I _know_ I can "plonk" the thread, but I don't do that, ok? I don't like clogging up my newsreader with filter rules.

And oh yes, before you start bitching me out, I just want to say I love you all, and I hope you all have a wonderful day. Now PISS OFF!

:-)

[Mike Marlow]

Feel better? It does feel good to vent the spleen from time to time.