OT: Separate hot and cold valves on kitchen taps save energy.

If I remembered correctly I stated to upsize the nipple to the next piping size to eliminate the restriction flow, and use bell reducers to install it into your installed piping size. That would mean use a

Yeah, I thought the color would go good with your lifestyle. :)

Uh, galvanized pipe is not "leaded". Lead pipe is just that, pipe made out of lead. Galvanized pipe is dipped in or plated with zinc, not lead. The major source of lead in residential plumbing is the solder in copper joints (assuming that there's not lead pipe coming from the street, as is the case in Flint, among other places), but in recent years lead-free solder has come into use.

More than 1M BTU isn't a residential system. That's a little different but it's still amazing they were forced upgrades.

Were they #2 oil systems or #6? Bunker?

A snow storm wouldn't do anything, other than perhaps taking out the electricity, which would affect any sort of central system. Worst case, 275 gallons of oil lasted three weeks.

In Vermont we had wood backup. In NY, we got cold (out three days once). The best solution was moving South, though. ;-) Though we were out 30 hours during Snowmageddon (2") two years ago.

Sure it will, or the machine will sit there forever. They will operate on cold water.

I know that, and most of my work was with commercial industrial HVAC, plus shopping centers, Gov't centers and the like. However, there was a lot or retrofit programs for both residential and commercial users.

Sad part is that a lot of residential users were never informed, nor took a look at the Utility companies web sites about it.

I remember #2 oil systems, but not much else. It has been decades since my last oil conversion job, and or service on them.

Well, I wish you the best this winter. Cold is never fun except for short periods, when planned.

Then I don't think you understand what a booster heater is, or its purpose.

Here is a video on the subject by a manufacturer whose products I was well familiar with over the years.

And a link to their website if you are interested. While it is not for residential usage the principle is the same.

That's all the cold we get and its been a warm, but wet, Winter so far (el Nino, and all). I don't think we've had a day where the high was below freezing and it's already been in the 50s and 60s every day for a couple of weeks (and into the foreseeable future). We weren't sad to leave the North East!

I understand what a dishwasher is and what it's for.

Where?

I think we're talking past each other. I'm talking about the heater in the DW itself. Every DW I've had will suspend the cycle until the water is at the optimum temperature.

And except for wasting money, you will have accomplished absolutely nothing by doing that. You really don't get it do you?

Dielectric unions/nipples are used to prevent two *dissimilar* metals from contacting each other where water is present. By you connecting a *steel* 1" dielectric nipple between 2 *steel* bell reducers you've accomplished absolutely nothing (except look foolish).

HTH

Odd, I know the links were there before posting then, yet they disappeared. ??

I was speaking of both maybe I should have just stuck to the one, like the domestic version. One poster here said that his Kitchen Aide published the degree rise of their internal heating coil, I had one years ago that also did but I don't remember reading anything about them in the later models.

I don't think the plastic used in these new dishwashers would withstand 180 degree's without aging very fast.

What you do not get is how pipe size reduction affects flow no matter what the fluid or gas is that is inside.

I have already proven it years ago on site, only an idiot would introduce a restriction into a piping system. No matter what the total size of the job is.

Is there a chance that the restriction will not bother anything? Yes, on small systems with low water consumption.

But, if the journeyman is worth his salt he would not take a chance knowing the problems that can arise and just do the job correctly.

Those pictures of the plumbing at your house is a good example of poor water flow. Every 90 degree angle reduces the water flow by the equivalent of 10 feet of straight piping. 45 degree elbows equal 5 feet of piping. Which is why long radius 90 degree elbows are made.

Yes, piping is part of the HVAC trade and you can get knowledgeable people and you can get backyard mechanics with no training and little experience.

Oh, and by the way, not all bell reducers are made from the same materials.

By the way, you would do well to look for a good plumbing contractor based on your pictures, with all those joints in the plumbing and you are concerned about one size increase on a dielectric nipple?

If you were talking about a continous flow system you might have a point, but that's not how dishwashers work, they fill and then they run. You could put ice water in one and if it ran long enough it would get that ice water to whatever temperature it was designed to achieve.

The limit is not the incoming water temperature, it is the heat loss through the top, bottom, and sides of the machine.

For a DW to give 40 degree rise it would have to know the temperature of the incoming water so it knows to turn off the heater at incoming +40. I imagine that is simple enough with all the electronics used today.

There are design limitations though. The heating element is restricted in size to what the machine will draw to run the pump motor plus the heating element that won't blow a 15A breaker. Some machines may have a time limit for the heater to be on before stepping to the next portion of the cycle. If not. it could go for a very long time hooked to a cold water tap.

Seems contradictory, but new machines run longer to use less energy. Our machine has an optional 1 hour cycles that uses more energy than the regular 4 hour cycle. The long cycle has some built in pauses to let the detergent soak off the crud.

The pump and heater don't have to run simultaneously. I don't think they do (and I know they run independently).

It needs some way to set the differential. To give a 40 degree rise (with an upper limit) it has to have a way of sensing the point to start so it knows the stopping point. A simple bi-metal can tell if it is below say, 180 and have a shutoff at 180 but if the incoming is more that 40 degrees from the upper limit it has to be on a sliding scale.

A more sensible method is to simply have a maximum temperature and let it rise to it with no restrictions. I image most are probably like that in reality, not a set 40 degrees.

Could be. Not life changing for me either way. The dishes come out clean so my reasons for using the machine are satisfied.

I just selected Whirlpool for a domestic DW regarding sanitation it is an option. It will raise the final rinse to approx 155 def F according to NSF/ANSI standard 184 for residential use.

It also says that the option adds heat and time to the cycle.

I can only guess at this point, but I'd bet there is a time limit for it as the cost to heat up 32 deg F water would be prohibitive for energy standards.

In looking at today's residential DW the temp rise factor is determined differently, in a commercial application what I said still stands. For the home they only require 155 degf as a minimum for rinse sterilization as opposed to the 180 degf for commercial applications.

DW have changed a lot over the years, I never worked on any, residential ones, I only knew some of the specs for those years ago as I compared them to the commercial products of that day.

Along with HVAC we also did restaurant equipment back in the 70's and

Sorry, I meant "why would you even want to do a 40F rise?", rather than a constant temperature.

Sure but the full power can be used where/when needed.

Why do you say that? Does it matter if you heat the water in a water heater or the DW? Most water heaters are electric, so it seems it would be a wash. ;-)