The profit margins C-less thinks are so high are in reality nowhere
near that range.
Festool annual sales currently run about 200 million. They have to
compete with the big dogs and insane margins simply won't let them
compete. I would be surprised if they made 10% on their gross
I am also willing to bet that the margins are way higher for HF shit.
Their router, for instance, maybe costs them 15 bucks to make because
they spend bugger-all on R&D (They steal all ideas), use inferior
materials and pay their workers dick-all in wages. Those commie
bastards are ripping you off, C-less! $ 59.00 for that router? Guess
who's screwing who here?
I only paid $29 or so. So complete a rip-off of a Makita, it had to be made
in the same factory. Yes, it has an inferior motor and a fair amount of
fettling was needed but my time fettling wasn't worth the difference in
price with the real thing. Plus it works better than my off the shelf DeWalt
and I can buy Makita parts, if needed.
How many people are pushing (or even mentioning) Bentleys around here
on almost a daily basis, hmmm? If they were, some gripes might come
out in the wash. <shrug>
Do I complain when people diss my HF line? <titter>
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey
How many here are actually pushing Festool other than reporting first hand
knowledge about the product and the value of the product. I seriousely
doubt any one here that uses Festool benefits a whole lot from a Festool
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that just because you don't see
the value, it does not mean that value does not exist. No need to
cannibalize the name or criticize the brand unless you have first hand
experience with the product and have a legitimate complaint.
Unfortunately, one doesn't need that first hand experience to complain about
Festool prices. I admit to not liking them at all, but I don't complain
about them because I do have first hand experience with several Festool
products. And since my initial foray into Festool territory gave me what I
wanted most which was dust collection, I've reconciled myself to those
prices. Coupled with Festool's 30 day, no hassle, full refund if you're not
completely satisifed with their products, there was really no risk for me to
take that first step into Festool territory to see if the tool met my needs.
There's a special type of satisfaction in buying and owning a tool that in
most cases, you know it will do what it's supposed to do first time and
everytime. Yeah, that satisfaction usually costs extra money. But for me
anyway, I'd much prefer that to buying some tool really cheaply that I'm
less confident about and always have the thought in the back of my minding
wondering if or when it was going to fail.
I've lived with crappy tools for many years but didn't want to replace them
because they still "worked". When I finally did replace the original Sears
crap the difference was amazing and I promised myself that I'd never buy a
cheap tool again (unless it was a one-job throw-away). If I couldn't afford
the "best", I didn't buy anything. Now that I'm in a position where I can buy
pretty much anything I want, I do. The Kapex (or a Laguna BS, for that
matter) is still beyond what I'm willing to pay.
I would love to own a Kapex but I probably would not use it. I have a Delta
CMS and absolutely quit using it, in the shop, when I bought a cabinet saw
and found it to be superior,coupled with the Dubby jigs, compared to the
I do have the LT16 HD Laguna however.... You just walk up to it, tension
the blade, turn it on, and start cutting. It has been months since I
switched blades so there has been no guide adjustments and it has probably
been a couple of years since I have adjusted the top wheel tilt angle
regardless of which blade is mounted. When you are ready to simply cut with
the saw and quit tweeking the guides or top wheel the Laguna and or the
MiniMax saws fill the bill. I avoided my old BS in the past simply because
of the adjustements that were constantly needed, no longer. Oh and the 4.5
hp monster hanging off the back side of the saw never strains. ;~) AND
oddly the longer 150" blades are easier to deal with then folding up or
opening than the short ones.
I looked at the Kapex, for about a microsecond, before I bought a Bosch to
replace my HF. I'll likely still use the HF rebuilding a fence this spring. I
won't fear leaving it outside. ;-)
Would you STOP! <sheesh> ;-) I got into the Festool swamp listening to you
guys. I don't want to spend as much on a bandsaw as I did on the Unisaw. ;-)
I wouldn't go for a motor that big. I'd rather not wire that much juice into
the "shop". Not that it would be impossible (the "shop has no walls yet), but
20A, 240V is enough.
Is it the new style Bosch with the articulating arm?
LOL, well when you want to work "with" the saw instead of "on" the saw.....
Actually it will run on 20 amp 240 and that is the smallest IIRC motor
available on the HD series saws. The Baldor motor requires 19 amp in 240
volt mode and 38 amp in 120 volt mode. My garage has a single 30 amp 240
Keep in mind also that, according to the electrician that replaced a breaker
in my new house, modern breakers tend to be overrated and it is not unusual
to see one trip at 80% capacity. The typical 240 volt tool, my cabinet saw
and stationary planer require 16 amps. With a 20 amp service you might be
borderline. Cheaper to go a little extra now than later.
These things were never designed to go aboard the Ark, guys.
Yeah, what amperage are common GFIs set to kick off, 5A or sumpin?
Picky li'l bastids, ain't they?
"I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded
professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who
encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I
learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy
as opposed to intentions."
-- Walter E. Williams
Totally agree with that. I had a breaker triping problem in the hot summer,
using the same power tools, that went away when the temperature cooled off.
Winter, Spring, and Fa, there was never a problem.
I think they will trip at any amperage, GFI. They are suppose to trip if
the ground carries the current, indicating a short, instead of only the
black and white leads. ARC fault is a different matter altoghther and is
problematic from what I understand.
Not if "the ground carries current", rather, if *not* only the hot and neutral
(black and white). If there is a leakage path somewhere else they will trip
also. IOW, the ground wire has nothing to do with it.
Wouldn't surprise me, though GFCI had a lot of teething problems, too. Those
are pretty much gone now, so you can assume that you have a problem if there's
Unfortunately I have experienced it with my new house and the replacement
breaker. On a 20 amp dedicated circuit with a small freezer, and a
compressor. One a week when both would come on at the same time the breaker
would trip. Continued with the replacement. The solution was to put one on
another circuit. Connections at breaker box and recepticle are tight. The
electrician hinted at the solution and the problem... ;~(
Compressor max load, 15 amp, Freezer max load according to repair technition
2 amp. Well under the 20 amp rating.
Compressor does fine on a 15 amp circuit. I suspect that the freezer pulls
much more than 2 amps and according to the electrician I really don't have
a breaker problem according to industry standards. He listed a host of
brands of breakers and their designed trip points. Most all according to
him trip at 80% load. He indicated that they ain't like they ust'a be. A
couple on his list would trip at the designated amp rating however they are
terribly expensive and or no longer in business.
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