OT: Painting

[Bill]

I recall that in the spring we were discussing paint ($herwin-Williams, etc).

I am repainting my 200 square foot shed (my first time). I finished the "prep" today. I think the shed has engineered wood sides--not smooth to the touch. I am basically covering tan paint with tan paint (but there is significant discoloration (darker) in some areas due to mold left in the grain).

I purchased some tan Pittsburgh "Paramount" exterior paint, satin ("exceptional one coat coverage") ~$30/gal. Here is a link (shortened, from being one of the longest links I ever saw): goo.gl/6aUzNZ

My plan was

(1) to use Zinsser 1,2,3 primer (white) where necessary (places especially 0-3 feet from the ground where there was vegetation in contact with the shed, and on some parts of the "framework" and other spots which lost some paint), and then apply a coat of my paint. This is handy since I already have a gallon of Zinsser from another project.

I started getting concerned about the results I was going to get ("bleeding"?) Other options are

(2) Use Zinsser primer over the whole shed and then apply a coat of paint.

(3) Use 2 coats of the paint, which is advertised to be it's own primer (a link from the paint is above).

(4) Proceed with option (1), as planned, prepared to add a second coat if necessary.

Which method would you recommend? I know you know better than I do! I want it to look great, but no one is going to look at it under a microscope. I mean, I cleaned the brown metal door for the first time today after 8 years and it looked pretty nice (I'm not painting that).

Thank you for your suggestion! Please be a bit careful, because I will most-likely follow it! : )

Bill

[hubops]

.. paint brush or sprayer ?

[Bill]

Good question, sorry I didn't include that information in my post. Brush and roller.

[nailshooter41]

Make sure you have killed the mold. Staining is one thing, but mold can li ve on to ruin your finish another day. Several solutions are available and wouldn't cost much to apply on something that small. I use a highly dilute d commercial Clorox (mixed in tap water, applied with a $10 pump sprayer) o r Jomax house cleaner. Jomax is pretty much available everywhere and is mo re environmentally safe and safer to use as well. Clorox only on the heavy stuff. Wash with power washer to prep. No power washer? Get one of thos e hose end driveway washers.

Caulk, putty before primer. Zinsser 123 can be rolled and brushed, make su re you bought the "all surface" or "exterior". Don't use the inside stuff outside. After priming, any remaining cracks and crevices that need caulk will be readily apparent.

Good paint. Roll with a 1/2" nap roller, and don't load up the roller with too much paint at one time.

If you have bare wood, don't be tempted to slather on the primer. A good c oat that covers completely is all you need. Primer is not a gap filler, it doesn't fill voids well (not at all on vertical surfaces) and won't dry pr operly if it is applied too thick. Apply enough that you cover the raw woo d well (like an even coat of paint) and stop. It says dry in one hour, but trust me on latex primers, wait two if you can before applying your top co at.

If you only prime parts, the amount of penetration of the paint will be dif ferent, and thus will your sheen. You will create "holidays" in the finish that will be easily seen. Likewise, the paint that goes over the primer w ill look quite nice and have a different texture AND sheen as it is the sam e as putting two coats of finish on compared to just one.

Don't believe it. I have tested everyone's primer/paint combos, and they o nly work well on surfaces where you changing colors, not painting damaged, weathered, or repaired surfaces. Plan on two coats for even surface textur es, color appearance, and sheen.

A bold man, says I.

Go to the internet and ask strangers how to spend your weekend doing someth ing you don't want to do!

Seriously, lots of good help here on this venue. Personally, I would put a ll the work I needed into the project now because as we say in painting, "y ou can't prep enough". If your finish fails in a few years, you have to st art over with the cleaning, scraping, sanding, power washing, mold killing and on an on.

If you are careful in your steps now and apply your primer over very clean surfaces and apply two coats (come on... it's not that much longer with a 2

00sq ft structure!)of paint it should last a long time. I have houses that I have painted down here in South Texas that look great after 10-15 years. Since that paint is on sale, you should probably pick up another gallon. If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of paint, even when primed.

Good luck!

Robert

[Bill]

Thank you Robert for your VERY HELPFUL reply to my post! I WILL pick up another gallon of the paint--which was on sale "even better" when I bought the first 2 gallons. I will also be buying Jomax (with the assumption that at least a few of those tens of thousands of black remnants of mold still have some life in them--maybe All of them do...), and another gallon of primer. I'm glad I have some Menards rebate credit! Who said prepping isn't a lot of fun, right? %-)

While I scrubbed today for 4 hours with a brush on a stick, I thought to myself that a pro would probably use a power washer. As it happens I bought a garden sprayer this spring, so I have that (to help apply the Jomax). I assume and hope that by "hose end driveway washer", you mean a nozzled garden hose (since that's what I have).

The directions for the Jomax say "clean the sprayer with water and baking soda". Could someone possibly express that in layman's terms? Is the idea that if you add a tablespoon of baking soda to a gallon of water in the tank that you will clean but won't plug the sprayer (Stanley "backpack" sprayer)? Please adjust my guess as appropriate. The directions for the sprayer suggest detergent for cleaning. btw, this is almost a lot of work (I left out the part where I removed a bunch of old caulk). : ) Somehow doing it takes less time than thinking about it.

I feel another day "wiser".

Thanks! Bill

[nailshooter41]

Rest assured the mold is alive and well. Since latex is a permeable coatin g, it will continue to live underneath the paint and can "blossom" later.

Cleaning the Jomax out of the sprayer will allow you to use it on other pro jects. The baking soda mix you described is what you need, and make sure y ou rinse it out thoroughly. Jomax's active ingredients are neutralized by the baking soda.

One of these tips, which are quite handy for washing other things too, are the tips I was talking about. I use them for light cleaning myself on smal l projects (like yours) where I don't want to drag out my pressure washer a nd all the attendant stuff.

1JHN/206383827

I am not sure why people hate to paint so much. If you learn to do it righ t and follow all the steps it can be one of the more rewarding things you c an do in home maintenance and repair. Today's paints are more forgiving an d longer lasting than they have ever been. They are easier to apply, too.

Robert

Robert

[Bill]

Great! I'm off to the store (actually, two of them). Thanks for the tips! :)

Bill

[Bill]

I picked up the "Little Big Shot". It is rather impressive--it even removes some paint. I used the Jomax product today and got about 85% more prepped. The shed being tan, it almost looks like bare wood now. No doubt, I've got a nice base surface for my primer and paint. Thank you for your help. I think "my new tools" should also be handy in cleaning my deck and some concrete that doesn't slope steeply enough. I'll post a picture of my shed after I'm completely finished working on it. Tomorrow, we get to paint. : ) Of course, that is the singular we.

Bill

[Dr. Deb]

Bill, too bad you bought the Pittsburg. Those who are saying the mold is s till alive and well are correct, unless you knock it back and put two coats of Kils on it.

Then go for BLP Mobile paint. Living where the morning humidity is always above 90% (and usually 95%) its the only paint I have found that will succe ssfully resist getting moldy. My shop is 25yrs old, and I am about to repa int it for the second time, it still does not have any mold or mildew on it . I am just repainting because I want to, not that I need to.

[Bill]

The Jomax did a very good job. Not perfect, but probably quite adequate. Certainly I'm working on a significantly higher plane now than I was going to be work at, so I'm very pleased with where I am. My humidity extremes are not as much as yours. I mainly had problems where someone "decorated" the shed with a big ivy wreath (before I bought the house), and a bit near the bottom edge. And the Jomax worked pretty well. Thank you for your suggestions. I'll note them for the next time! : )

Bill

[Bill]

Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought to myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I tried working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the ground.

Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question: Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance) about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of the roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a second coat of paint? How about on the back which no one ever sees? I only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don't mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please explain why I want to do that. Aside from the "fun", I mean. : )

Bill

[Puckdropper]

Bill wrote in news:ontfut0qe6 @news6.newsguy.com:

On the few things I've painted, I find the second coat develops the color better and fills in the tiny voids and imperfections in the first coat. This is dependent on the paint and techniques, of course.

Puckdropper

[nailshooter41]

Your walls should just take a few minutes a side to roll out. Not sure why any wall on a structure that small would take that long. In about an hour you should have been able to "wall out" the siding on the whole structure. That of course does not mean cutting in, trimming, etc., just getting the paint on the big flat surfaces.

When I started doing this professionally, I quit using roller trays and wen t to a five gallon bucket and a screen. Next, I always use an extension. That way I have plenty of material in a stable bucket and I don't have to b end over to load the roller. Need to go to lunch or stop between coats? Dr op the screen in the bucket and put the top on for later use.

It absolutely will. If the siding is plywood, then you will have exposed e dges on both sides of the cut where you can see the layers of plywood. Thi s is where plywood starts to delaminate if it catches water from not being properly sealed. Likewise if it is some kind of press board. MOST grooves are pressed into the surface as a pattern, but some are cut. Regardless, the same problem exists and that is delamination or swelling at the grooves .

Shame on you! You think it will deteriorate and rot less because it is les s apparent? You should think differently and realize that you need to be e ven more careful sealing an exterior surface that will receive weathering. If it is hidden from view, when there is damage from a poor sealing job, y ou won't see it until it is too late.

Again, if it is taking that much time you are doing it wrong. Sorry.

Try this: I use a 2" paint brush and slather the paint on the grooves befor e I pain the field if I am rolling and brushing. I don't care how much I ge t outside the grooves just as long as I get it in the grooves. You can slap on paint to cover the groove on an 8' sheet in two brush loads if you hold he brush parallel to the groove when applying. Work fast! You aren't fini shing a piano. I load up the brush and do the grooves, around windows, ins ide corners and trims and anything else that I see fit and cut the whole bu ilding in before I start "walling out" the project.

Really load your brush up (just before uncontrollable drips) and get the ma terial on the surface. Come back when the brush is almost out of paint and smooth out the material.

When you load your roller, make sure you distribute the paint around the wh ole circumference of the roller cover. Fully charged, the cover holds and amazing amount of paint and can get a lot of area covered. If you don't ha ve a 5 gallon pail and lid and a roller screen, go get one. The 5 gallon p ails are good for all kinds of stuff after paint, and are less than $3. Lid s are about the same. I use them for all kinds of things including holding gun nails, holding my sheetmetal tools in a waterproof container, and my g uys use them to carry odds and ends of tools around on the jobs. The scree n can only be used for its purpose, but it is well worth the money. Likewi se the extension. A cheap wooden extension is about $3, and the cheap meta l models at HD are about $5. With a bucket/screen/extension, no more leani ng over trays, and no more working off a ladder to get paint on the upper p arts of the walls, no standing next to a wall to apply the paint, no more p aint falling on your face from the roller, and it makes application MUCH ea sier and faster.

Robert

[Ed Pawlowski]

Even so called "one coat" paint looks better with two.

As for the back, the only reason to paint would be weather protection if in a place that would be affected.

[Bill]

why any wall on a structure that small would take that long. In about a n hour you should have been able to "wall out" the siding on the whole st ructure. That of course does not mean cutting in, trimming, etc., just g etting the paint on the big flat surfaces.

went to a five gallon bucket and a screen. Next, I always use an extens ion. That way I have plenty of material in a stable bucket and I don't h ave to bend over to load the roller. Need to go to lunch or stop between coats? Drop the screen in the bucket and put the top on for later use.

ed edges on both sides of the cut where you can see the layers of plywood . This is where plywood starts to delaminate if it catches water from not being properly sealed. Likewise if it is some kind of press board. MOST grooves are pressed into the surface as a pattern, but some are cut. Regardless, the same problem exists and that is delamination or swellin g at the grooves.

less apparent? You should think differently and realize that you need t o be even more careful sealing an exterior surface that will receive weat hering. If it is hidden from view, when there is damage from a poor seal ing job, you won't see it until it is too late.

efore I pain the field if I am rolling and brushing. I don't care how muc h I get outside the grooves just as long as I get it in the grooves. You can slap on paint to cover the groove on an 8' sheet in two brush loads i f you hold he brush parallel to the groove when applying. Work fast! You aren't finishing a piano. I load up the brush and do the grooves, aroun d windows, inside corners and trims and anything else that I see fit and cut the whole building in before I start "walling out" the project.

e material on the surface. Come back when the brush is almost out of pai nt and smooth out the material.

e whole circumference of the roller cover. Fully charged, the cover hold s and amazing amount of paint and can get a lot of area covered. If you don't have a 5 gallon pail and lid and a roller screen, go get one. The

5 gallon pails are good for all kinds of stuff after paint, and are less than $3. Lids are about the same. I use them for all kinds of things inc luding holding gun nails, holding my sheetmetal tools in a waterproof con tainer, and my guys use them to carry odds and ends of tools around on th e jobs. The screen can only be used for its purpose, but it is well wort h the money. Likewise the extension. A cheap wooden extension is about $3, and the cheap metal models at HD are about $5. With a bucket/screen/ extension, no more leaning over trays, and no more working off a ladder t o get paint on the upper parts of the walls, no standing next to a wall t o apply the paint, no more paint falling on your face from the roller, an d it makes application MUCH easier and faster.

Thank you for the additional lesson! It occurred to me to maybe try a different brush for the grooves, as you suggested. I've been using a 3" brush. As you say, the rolling time is not that much, even with my tray. I use a handheld container I cut from a fabric softener or bleach bottle for brush work. I'll consider a "bucket" paint system in the future (I'm going to read your post again later too!) You were correct that I had a little bit of the "piano" syndrome when I started. I am getting better. The mosquitoes come visit at about 7:30 or 8:00 pm, so I

need to get on it! : )

Bill

[-MIKE-]

When I was painting the T1-11 OSB-ish stuff on my Sharn, I ended up using the end of the nappy roller and pushed it at an angle into the grooves. It went faster than using a brush for me.

It was a way to get the most paint in there, the fastest. Then I finished the grooves with a quick, light, pass from the brush just to even it out.

[clare]

One more reason - to not look like a cheap-ass when someone thinks to look at the back - "What a cheap-assed lazy beggar - only did 3/4 of the job!!"

[clare]

If doing a LOT of painting a "power feed roller" is a good investment. - a Graco may be overkill, but a Wagner SideKick sells for about $120 Canadian - so likely less thsn $75 in rhwe USA. Paints from anything from 1 to 5 gallon pail.

No more trays, no more "dipping and dripping" and going up and down ladders - - -

[Bill]

I did try a 2" (angled) trim brush today. I never went back to my 3" brush even though it already had some paint on it. That, along with making a point of trying to work faster, helped me work faster--I'm sure no where near as fast as you Robert. I feel myself "enjoying" the rolling and not rushing through it, especially when painting the easy area--that goes fast enough (and at least you get to stand up and move around! : ) ) Using the 2" brush avoids a lot of wasted effort.

Here is a curious question. After washing my (1/2" nap) roller cover twice now, I notice it is "wider/fluffier" in the middle than on both ends. It seemed to work fine. Does this say something about it's lifespan? If it wasn't covering, I would replace it of course. It has a solid pvc core (I think older ones were cardboard?)

Maybe I'll get one of those paint screens for my next big painting job.

Thank you everyone who has contributed comments and suggestions to this thread (geared around making us all better painters!) One of my favorite things I learned about is Jomax (house cleaner)! : ) What's not to like about painting, huh?

Bill

[nailshooter41]

OK, Bill. If you are going to be a professional painter, that's called a s ash brush, not an angled brush. ;^)

Once I got the hang of things and worked alongside of a couple of my guys t hat have been professional painters for years, I work fast. Keep your head in the game, paint your surfaces with a good coat and move to the next are a as quickly as possible and you will, too. People concentrate on little f iddly details that only they will notice, or that the paint will cover up.

Due to a misspent youth, one of the painters that worked for me went to a " state sponsored institution" that taught him to paint so he would have a sk ill. When we were painting with some thin, crappy paint we got a lot of ru ns. I went over and got a brush and put it in my pocket and would smooth o ut the run and carefully feather the edges. My compatriot would simply tak e his finger and smear it back and forth until it was gone. When we went b ack to look, you couldn't see either one of our drips or sags. Lesson lear ned. Not only was he faster, but he didn't have to keep up with the brush, and didn't have to clean it every once and a while because it dried out so rapidly.

Surprise yourself. Time one of he surfaces you are painting at your normal speed. Then go to another surface the same size and paint absolutely as f ast as you can while doing an acceptable job. Bet you will cut your time i n half. Let the surfaces dry and then compare the quality of the finish. Quite likely you will see there isn't a lot of difference in the final prod uct. Then you will be able to adjust your speed to get the quality you fin d acceptable.

I feel myself "enjoying" the

You aren't cleaning the roller covers correctly. Get some really cheap dish washing liquid (the stuff I buy at the discount stores is about $1 a bottle ). Rinse all the paint you can off the roller cover under a running hose. Spread about 1/2 tsp on the DW detergent on the roller and work it into th e nap using a back and forth motion. This only takes about a minute, and m ake sure you get to the ends and inside the poly cover roll.

Rinse well until the water runs clear. Squeeze the water out of the roller, but then "whip it" out of the roller in one direction, then reverse the ro ller and do the same thing. The nap should be standing up. Let the roller dry undisturbed by letting it stand in its end.

The rollers don't "fluff" at the ends because there is paint residue left i n the rollers. Rollers cleaned properly will last through several jobs and it becomes inexpensive to buy the more costly covers. If you aren't going to clean them properly, buy the cheapest (not surprisingly, the worst to u se that give the worst results) roller covers you can find.

No kidding, it's a game changer!

LOL!! Atta, boy! BTW, Jomax works pretty good on cleaning brick, concrete, decks, fencing, and all kinds of other surfaces.

Robert