mumbled something about the> >> Any rider who thinks that laying a
Hogwash. The difference in friction between miscellaneous bits of metal and
the road versus the rider and the road is what counts. Once again, getting
off the bike (pushing away and decelerating) is not to avoid accident,
merely the kind of injury involved with getting entangled in the bike when
an accident is unavoidable.
On 9/19/2005 2:38 PM firstname.lastname@example.org mumbled something about the
Then be surprised. Look at any highspeed video of an airbag deploying.
No, I'm not assuming anything, I said that being held onto the bike is
probably more dangerous than being catapulted over. You need a lesson
in reading comprehension.
Not only have I seen a motorcycle collide with a car, I've gone head on
with a car in 1988. The motorcycle was buried into the hood, totalling
the car, I was thrown free of the car. Had I stayed with the
motorcycle, I probably would have lost both legs below the knees. In
the case where I saw a motorcycle hit the side of a car that had ran a
red light, the rider was thrown over the car, the motorcycle was in
completely in the back seat of the car, killing the passenger in the
I didn't say an airbag would interfer. You really need to learn how to
Yes, I have heard of an airbag deploying when not in a collision. One
when a car hit a large pothole on a hiway, another when hitting a set of
railroad tracks. I've also seen it happen in a police chase video when
someone trying to outrun the cops hit a bad dip in the road (not saying
the suspect didn't deserve it, but it wasn't a crash when it deployed).
Having done that, I cannot recall ever seeing one blow out
sideways and then straighten out. Regardless, I daresay the
collison of tire with whatever the bike has run into will
likely moot the issue of holding onto the grips.
If you are not assuming anything you cannot logically reach any
My supposition, at least, was consistent with your remarks.
I never said you said that an airbag would interfere. You
really need to learn how to read.
I've heard of the (or a, if more than one) railroad track case.
Not having seen the tracks, it is unclear if that was a crash
prior to deployment. Some railroad tracks are nasty enough that
crossing them at high speed will damage the front end so badly
as to make it impossible to maintain control. For all I know
he same may have been true of the pothole. The point being that
improper deloyment is so rare as to not be much of an issue
for cars. I'm not clear on how many GoldWings are driven
hard over curbs and the like, so it may be more of an issue
with motorcycles than with cars.
The kinds of accidents you describe seem to be more germaine.
Honda claims, IIRC that the GoldWing airbag is only effective
below about 35 mph. I dunno what happens above that speed,
maybe the rider catapults over the handlebars.
Do you ride a motorcycle?
Not for a few years. Recently sold a Triumph.
Don't know and neither do you. Have you seen the design? Do you know hte
size? the mounting? Think about how it would cushion you if it just shot
straight up in front of you, not touching until you are being tossed over
the handlebars. Would you rather hit an airbag or the side of a tree?
Have you disconnected your auto airbags? You may be 100% correct, you may
be 100% wrong. You are, however, condemning a product you just don't know
much about. Why not keep an open mind until you do know?
This isn't even just an idea; it's an implementation. First the
SawStop; now the Honda m/c airbags. It's a wonder we are allowed to
sleep on beds more than 4 inches off the floor. and bunk beds! Now
THOSE are safety hazards. One of my cousins got knocked out cold,
falling out of a bunk bed.
I was kind of thinking that also. Why would you want to tie yourself to
a potentially spinning, rotating mass of metal that weighs more than you do
with only yourself between that metal and the pavement? [shudder]
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
When I bought my 1st motorcycle (50+ years ago) the dealer took me to a
big grassy field and had me practice laying it down and getting away
from it. If anyone didn't learn it to his satisfaction, they didn't get
Can you hear the insurance companies cringing?
I cerainly can't claim that kind of mileage, but I did have an occasion
about 20 years ago where a car ran a light in front of me. I didn't
have time or space to turn, but laying it down slowed it enough that the
car was past before it and I tried to occupy the same space. In that
case, I didn't get off, just yanked the bike back upright and checked my
pants for brown stains :-).
BTW, I didn't even know I remembered how to lay it down - I certainly
didn't have time for thinking about it.
And there are those times the bike goes down without your consent and
getting away from it is required. I've had a couple of those too.
Long years ago, I used to ride a lot. There were times when reaction
time had to be quick, choice was minimal, and I laid the bike down as
what I felt, in a true split second, was the only option. Possibly,
some of the guys I knew could have turned the machine. Possibly not.
Most of them, like me, didn't track the miles ridden, because a lot was
off-road, some of it competition. Too, I didn't track miles because I
usually rode at least a half-dozen different bikes a year, often a
dozen. And, too, unlike truck drivers, we didn't get paid by the mile.
I've never been without at least one motorcycle, usually more for the last
45 yrs. and have never even considered laying it down to avoid a collision.
Maybe I would if I was going to run into the side of an 18 wheeler and I
thought I might be able to slide under but even then you usually high side
and go flipping. The brakes and rubber tires on the pavement will slow you
up a whole lot faster than steel on the bike or you tumbling thru the air.
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
I guess you guys are using another definition of laydown from the one used
here in Motorcycle Safety. Laydown is a graceful way of accepting the
inevitable, not an attempt to avoid it. Rather than ride the bike into a
obstacle, or attempt to stay seated if it is at an unrecoverable angle, you
use the laydown to get clear of it by remaining behind, not under.
It's the difference between a three-point heels - ass - head parachute
landing versus the PLF, which distributes the momentum along the less
vulnerable portions of your anatomy.
Agreed. Of course, today, no shirts, no shoes, shorts and bobtailed
helmets seem to be de rigeur amongst the riding crowds of all ages.
Coming from the pre-electric start days, I found shoes a VERY useful
accessory, and boots even better. Long sleeve shirts, and jeans, were a
minimum, along with a jet style helmet, with leathers, even very light
ones, preferable to jeans and a shirt.
I tend to envy--I guess that's the word--riders who have never been in
a position to have to lay a bike down. One of the reasons I quit riding
years ago was my inability to convince my right hand that my reflexes
had slowed enough to make less twist a good idea. In truth, tootling
along on two wheels wasn't really what I enjoyed. Dragging footpegs,
sliding and generally overdoing were, which is why I found off-road
riding more fun than road riding, finally.
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