I guess it is the card you end up with.. I have a Citibank card and a GM
Card. I have a 21 grace period with both and usually get them 10 days
before they are due. Never have had a late fee, or interest and my limit
keeps going up. I always pay them in full each month and I get $1,000's in
credit each time I buy a new or used vehicle.
Let's explain Usenet s-l-o-w-l-y: Not all posts propagate at the same
rate. I did not see your claim that debit cards have the same safety
vis a vis fraud as credit cards unti *after* I posted the above.
Does this also include bounced check charges and other deadbeat fees
if a thief cleans out your checking account with a stolen debit card?
Not asking to be a wise-acre, I'm genuinely curious as to how far they
It dosen't get "cleaned out". As soon as you dispute the charge,
the money is replaced, fees are refunded, etc... This exact thing
happened to me and my credit union was awesome to deal with. Mu card
was lost, and I didn't even know it was lost until I started getting
overdraft notices in the mail. I have overdraft protection, so
nothing was rejected.
Should the charge be proven to be yours, the fees, money, etc... are
instantly removed from your account.
If the card owner was stupid enough to do something like write the PIN
on the card, and the purchase was made as a debit, with the PIN, you
can probably kiss the money goodbye.
If the purchase was made as a credit card, even if the card is a debit
only version with the Visa logo, all Visa value added services apply.
Visa usually recovers illegally charged money from the merchant that
accepted the card, via charge backs. The merchant is required to
verify signatures, even though most don't.
I guess I'm not asking the question correctly. Assuming one does not
have overdraft protection, if a thief manages to steal your card and
PIN, and in a single or a couple of large purchases manages to reduce
your bank balance to zero, does the debit card company cover you for
bounced check fees when checks you have written on your account (now
overdrawn) start bouncing?
With the PIN, maybe. You are running under the issuer's debit card
agreement. How that would happen is anyone's guess, as the PIN should
not be recorded in the wallet or purse.
Without the PIN, my credit union would and did for me, as the card is
run though as a Visa, and is subject to Visa's benefits and rules.
It's a little complicated, but a single card can be subject to two
sets of rules, depending on how it's used.
Yup, it covers everything. About a year ago, I was having a
particularly troublesome transmission replaced in my wife's car. The
shop had put *4* transmissions in and each one failed catastrophically
within weeks. The shop promised to have it fixed by a certain date,
but didn't make it so they rented me a car. I had the car for about a
month (don't get me started) and in the end, instead of charging the
shop for the rental rates, Hertz charged the whole amount on my debit
card (they had to have the card # to hold the car). That caused my
entire bank account to cascade into bounced checks, bounced check
charges, causing more checks to bounce, etc. All in all, because of
this one fraudulent charge, I ended up with hundreds of dollars in
bounce charges and about a dozen bounced checks.
The bank waived all of them and even paid company late fees and bounce
fees without blinking an eye. We were not liable for any charge
because it wasn't our fault. Hopefully they passed those charges on
to Hertz, but I really don't know.
No, there is a functional difference. Thieves can run up a credit
card, but I am only responsible for the first $50 ($25?) of whatever
they do -- the CC company is responsible for the rest. I believe this is
by law; when CC were first getting started, it was one of the
concessions they had to make to get into business. That's why monitor
spending history and sometimes call people after they have made several
large purchases outside of their normal spending habits, they are
protecting their money, not yours.
I find it interesting that debit card only folks are so
defensive. I have never accepted one because in their early
days they were clearly not as secure as a credit card. The
better debit card companies seem to have taken care of most
of that problem, but I have no need or desire for one.
Defensive? Pointing out errors and myths is defensive? <G>
I've had credit cards, but only when someone has made it really worth
my while to get one. Some merchants give large discounts for
applying off an initial purchase. I'll take advantage of that to the
extent I planned to pay cash for, pay it all in the first payment, and
cancel the card.
I read the small print on my cards, and don't feel comfortable running
up large bills to collect miles, points, whatever. One mistake
paying that bill, a lost mailing, etc.. and many, if not _all_ of the
benefits are wiped out.
I find a debit card much less hassle than writing a check in large
businesses. Small businesses often offer a CASH discount, not a check
or debit card discount, but cash. I am more than happy to take them
up on their offer.
If the debit card carries a Visa logo, it is functionally identical to
a Visa card. Some institutions only offer the protections if the card
gets run as a CREDIT CARD. Punching DEBIT on the machine, or telling
the cashier to run it as debit card (requiring the PIN) can sometimes
forfeit some protections
There are debit cards available that do not carry any credit card
company's logo. which have significant differences to a credit card,
and sometimes offer little or no protection.
I've never had a Mastercard or Amex debit card, so I don't know their
My bottom line? I read EVERY card agreement for the cards that I
If your debit card has the Visa logo, you're responsible for no more
than any other Visa card, it's part of the service. Further, if you
have a fraudulent charge on your debit card, all you have to do is
call your bank and they are required to give you the money back while
they investigate. Credit cards and debit cards are absolutely
identical in that regard, you have at least as much protection with a
debit card, often more.
FWIW, I fist got a credit card about 20 years ago, and while I've made
a few late payments over the years, I've never had a credit card
company refuse to waive the late fee after a simple request by
Yep - when I called. He offered to remove it. It was 100% my mistake. I was
a "deadbeat", to quote Dave. Didn't think that would be honest. I screwed up
by not reading the contract.
I politely told the rep, to cancel the account and he collected my reason...
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