OT - How Many Code Violations Will Fit In A Junction Box?

[krw]

I note that you had to snip the discussion to cover your ass. Didn't work.

[Markem618]

Incorrect assumption, I snipped because the previous information is still available, and I was answering your question which your forgot the ?.

Of course you can invent your own version of reality.

All of this cause I made a joke and you jumped on me like I had vulgarly insulted your wife. That was sometime back I wonder whether you remember?

[Michael Trew]

I had a couple of similar circuits in my house also. Two of them, I decided to completely disconnect; one was for a few basement outlets, and I don't remember where the other went, but clearly it wasn't that important.

My "favorite" one, which I had to fix because it was being used, was a metal junction box (old iron one similar to yours) with TWO circuits in it; electrical tape, no solder or plastic caps. It was partially shorting off of the box or something; because when one circuit breaker was off, the other circuit had a very low voltage testing on the line. It took a good while to track down that issue.

I noticed this short due to the PO having one of those odd light switches that glow orange when they are turned off. It had a very dim glow (more dim than normal) even when the circuit was turned off... yikes! After I fixed that mess, I quickly did away with that annoying glowing light switch.

[DerbyDad03]

Was it possible that it was Edison circuit - a shared neutral? Every "symptom" you described would happen with a Edison circuit. Both breakers need to be off for both circuits to be completely dead if any device (like the light switch) is "live" on the circuit whose breaker is still on. A lamp would have acted the same way.

I have one Edison circuit in my house which I may eliminate some day. Edison circuits were used to save wire. If you use enough 3 wire cable vs pairs of 2 wire cables, you can save some money. In my case the single Edison circuit uses less than 15' of 3 wire cable so there wasn't a whole lot of savings realized. I really don't quite understand why it was even installed.

[Michael Trew]

You know, now that you say that, I think that was the case. I didn't know what the circuit was called, but the whole second floor and finished attic of my home; both levels share ONE circuit... which goes into a ceramic fuse box in one second floor bedroom closet. The other circuit in the box covers the three-way light switch for the floor lamp and 2nd floor hall light, as well as all of the first floor ceiling and porch lighting.

This fuse box, for some reason, has four fuses; both hots and neutrals are fused. The moron PO's had 20 amp fuses installed; I put 15's in. They never blow, because I really don't run anything more than a lamp, fan, or phone charger upstairs. Anyway, coming out of the box, are two hots, and a shared neutral; into a conduit, outside, and down into my main breaker box.

Question: I've tried to describe this situation to people before, and I've gotten mixed responses. Should the two hots be on the same phase, or different phases in my breaker box? I've been told that they should be on the same phase in case the neutral is broken so it doesn't accidentally become a 240V circuit or something. I've also been told that they should be on alternate phases so the Neutral wire isn't accidentally overloaded. I think I have them on the same phase; (alternating breakers) at the moment.

[DerbyDad03]

I believe that it's more common to say that a circuit comes *from* a panel, not *into* a panel. You start at the source and go out from there.

Without knowing the gauge of the wires used, I can't agree or disagree that the PO's are morons. A properly wired sub-panel and 12g wire out to fixtures would permit 20A fuses to be used.

Again, if the fuse box is being fed from the main panel, the 3 wire cable is coming *from* the main panel, not into it. (Correct me if I have the directions mixed-up)

However, this doesn't sound like an Edison circuit (multi-wire branch circuit). This sounds sound like a sub-panel. That's a very different thing. Think about your main panel. How is power supplied from the street?

2 hots (on opposing phases) and a neutral, right?

I'm not a pro in any respect, but AFAIK, in either case - sub-panel or Edison circuit - the hots should be on opposite phases to prevent overloading the neutral.

In addition, without going down the rat hole of being grandfathered under some earlier version of the NEC, the hots should be connected to a

2 pole breaker. Not only does that ensure that the hots are on opposite phases, but a fault on either hot would kill both circuits. Older versions of code allowed for 2 single breakers and a handle tie, but I believe that they changed it to a 2 pole breaker to eliminate the issues caused by "future relocation" of a single breaker which might eliminate the handle tie or put both hots on the same phase or both. This is one of those cases where, grandfathered or not, it's a cheap and easy fix and provide so much safety it just makes sense to do it.

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