OT - How Many Code Violations Will Fit In A Junction Box?

The following image shows a junction box that I opened up in an 80+ year old house. This house has various generations of wire types, from BX, to fabric covered NM (very old and newer old), plastic NM, etc.

Power is supplied via the large fabric covered cable on the right and leaves leave via the black Romex cable on the left. Prior to taking the photo, I removed a very old (white turned almost completely brown) ceramic pull chain fixture. I also removed the oily, peeling electrical tape from one of the splices to see how it was made.

Check out this beauty:

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Here's what I found:

1 - The box was held to the joist by 2 nails. The one that can be seen behind the taped splice was not fully hammered into the joist. The second one (not seen) was a finishing nail that was hammered about halfway in and then bent over. Obviously, the box wobbled and twisted.

2 - The splices were made by stripping some insulation from the outgoing Romex, wrapping it around the source wire and then taping the splice. No solder, no wire nuts.

3 - No cable clamp was used for the outgoing Romex. Instead, the ground wire was wrapped around the cable and the hole in the box, "securing" the Romex to the box.

4 - You can't tell from the photo, but based on the color of the fabric on the source cable, the hot and neutral are reversed. The reason I opened this box is because I was working on a light switch down stream of this junction box. When I opened the switch box I noticed that the white was switched and the black wires were twisted and taped. Again, no wire nut and no cable clamps.

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Instead of assuming that the neutral was switched, I decided to test the wires and found that the white was hot. That lead me back to the junction box pictured above. The white fabric was hot, the white/black fabric was the neutral. At least the installer was smart enough to switch the hot, even if the color was wrong.

Having already been in the panel, I knew that a black wire was attached to the breaker, so there must be another junction box in between the panel and the box I was working on. The color swap had to have happened somewhere, so I went looking upstream.

What I found was that there was a junction box up in a joist bay, inside what used to be a cold air return. That box has a BX cable, the large fabric covered cable and a plastic coated Romex attached. It is also 8 feet into the bay and covered in decades old dirt and grime. The only way for me to access it would be to pull down part of the basement "ceiling", something I did not have the time nor the desire to do. I'm not even 100% sure if that is where the hot/neutral switch was made. That is going to be a job for another day.

My temporary solution was to mark the fabric wires in the box I was working in, swap the outgoing wires so that the black wire would be hot in the switch box, secure the box to the joist with screws, install a cable clamp and use wire nuts. I then closed up the box and hung a tag noting that the hot & neutral were swapped somewhere upstream. (Tag not shown)

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I just can't wait to pull the ceiling down and open that other box. I'll be wearing a hat, cloves, mask and maybe even a Tyvek suit. I can't imagine what I'll find inside *that* box.

Reply to
DerbyDad03
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That is a beauty. I can see right away you have conduit, so the box is probably grounded. Wish I had that in more places here. I'd need to take out the plaster and lathe ceiling in the garage, while minding not to damage the asbestos insulation on the ducts from gravity furnace, to get at all of the wiring. I expect it's cloth insulated knob and tube. I've seen the knobs in side the walls when I've made holes for other repairs.

I've been running conduit for all new wiring but that's not much.

Elijah

------ often finds disused gas pipes when opening the walls, too

Reply to
invalid unparseable

Where do you see conduit?

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Am I mistaking what I'm seeing in the upper right corner here?

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Elijah

------ whose cloth insulated wires don't look as good as that

Reply to
invalid unparseable

Yes, yes you are. ;-)

That is black cloth covered cable. Almost round, almost 1/2" in diameter. No ground.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Conduit is complete overkill. Something only a corrupt city like Chicago would require.

The gas installer I had just a few years ago cut (half way) through one of the wires in my basement. The hot wasn't any longer but it was touching the gas line.

Reply to
krw

If the wire had been in conduit, would he have been able to cut it?

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Cook County is the body that requires conduit, Chicago is but a part of the county.

But in most industrial applications conduit is a good thing.

You should check that trolling motor battery!

Reply to
Markem618

and no "clamp" or "bushing either - right??

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Probably. He would have at least bent the crap out of it. A conduit would probably have found its way through the gas line, too. He just _had_ to run the gas line where the wire was.

Reply to
krw

A distinction without a difference.

OK but that's not the subject.

Got it. You believe in union bosses running cities too.

Reply to
krw

Nope I believe the present evolution the American political system corrupt. (no answers to how to fix and do not care too.)

Follow the money.

You are drawing conclusion based upon your bias.

Reply to
Markem618

Nope. Facts, but you're agreeing so...

Reply to
krw

Do you not see the clamp on the large cable on the right?

It was loose, but it?s there. I tightened it up.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

DerbyDad03 snipped-for-privacy@eznet.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

I was waiting for that revelation! That many other problems, there was no way the clamp was clamping the wire.

Puckdropper

Reply to
Puckdropper

Senilty is looking good on you.

Reply to
Markem618

Do we really need to do this again?

How about you guys start your own thread related to the downfall of the American political system as well as all the insult lobbing.

a.h.r would be the perfect group for that conversation.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Union bosses running the cities = American political system corrupt

Union bosses running the cities = Follow the money

Mirror anyone?

I don't know why you can't even understand what *YOU* wrote.

Reply to
krw

Because I do not have access to the twists and turns in your head that bastardizes what I wrote and meant.

Reply to
Markem618

Do what again, Post an OT topic? ;~)

Reply to
Leon

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