OK, one more SU Q? ...

[dpb]

I'm making some progress; I did manage (finally!) to get a component to do something the way I wanted to just build the shell of the main house to which to attach the entryway that we're going to rebuild...so I guess I am _beginning_ to get the picture. Good thing don't have to try to make a living this way, though... :)

That aside, the Q? has to to with printing -- took a plan into coffee shop this am to show to one of the regulars who happens to be the retired community college building trades instructor and who was going to be my contractor for the project until back trouble caused him to decide to just hang up the hammer instead...thought I'd bounce some ideas off him since he'd looked at the concept previously.

Anyway, when printing, the background for the text and the dimensions text objects is all printing in black so can't read them; they don't show up with any background on the screen and I can't find any place in which one has any way to specify what that is to go change...all the 'Edit' context button allows is to just change the text itself.

DAGS and all I found had to do with scenery backgrounds and the like and found no mention in any of the online help stuff...

Anybody had this problem and/or know the cause/how to fix?

[Leon]

On 7/20/2018 2:07 PM, dpb wrote: Snip

Are you saying that there is a box around the dimension numbers, and it is black?

What color is your drawing back ground? Is your drawing background black?

ANYWAY...... you may need to change the color of your dimensions and dimension lines if you are getting black on black....

To do this go to the menu Window, Model Info, and click Dimensions on the left side. On the right locate Fonts and the color box just to the right. Click and change the color.

And FWIW my drawing back ground is very light in color so all every thing shows up.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. ;~(

Maybe if you send me a copy of the file I can open it and determine the problem.

[dpb]

...

I responded but apparently didn't get sent last night that I hadn't found the setup stuff there so thanks! for that...I tried changing the color there with no effect on the printing, there is the text color and font can be changed but nothing for text background I can find.

The figure background is still the default light gray and there is no visual clue on the screen; only when printing the text boxes are all rendered with very dark if not completely black background.

As I noted in a offline response I was going to create just a simple drawing with only an entity and a couple measurement lines and it didn't have the problem. So, I closed all entities and reopened the problem drawing file and the issue went away -- I have no idea what caused it nor what made it disappear...a fluke of some sort probably done by a novice user making an error keystroke at the wrong time that uncovered an undocumented "feature"...

I guess we'll just have to see if it occurs again...it was real in the encoding, though, because while it was present, setting the printer itself to "reverse print" caused the text to show in as normal instead of with dark background.

[Leon]

FWIW I have so many tweaks in SU that I use a simple drawing with all of those custom settings to begin every new drawing. I write protect it and start with it. After opening I save under a new name. Also FWIW a bunch of hard to remember settings are spelled out , in text, on the drawing as a reminder to me what to do for seldom used features.

[dpb]

On 7/21/2018 3:54 PM, Leon wrote: ...

With time, maybe... :) At this point I'm still just trying to get past drawing one element at a time.

I did build a useful component but realized I set one dimension incorrectly -- it's just a shell wall for a rectangular structure so nothing fancy but I had figure out how to then stretch it vertically to make sections for foundation, main and second floors, etc., that are different heights.

But, I used an overall length instead of the length of the main structure when created it and I've spent over an hour trying to figure out how one could just change that length...the tape measure tool lets one scale the whole model; I never did figure out a way to simply push the one end wall/floor section inwards to shrink it in only one dimension.

So, I eventually gave up and just started over...

I'm sure one learns how to use it eventually, but easy I'd say it isn't for specifics; one can make all kinds of just random shapes and so on and I suppose once one figures out the "tricks" you can also end up with shapes that actually represent what one wants...

I suspect a major portion of the problem I'm yet having is I don't yet know what to try to model...I certainly don't want to build a house showing every tubafor to simply be able to envision what an exterior view would look like for a given arrangement of components as far as overall size, roof pitch, door and window sizes/placements...there probably are components out there that folks have build that would basically let one specify those things and essentially have it done.

[Bill]

You have to practice on something. Try to model a desk or workbench (that's what I started with before I bought a book). Give it at least 3 weeks before you start getting irritated over it. Starting from scratch everyday will help show you how much you are learning! Good luck!

Bill

[Leon]

Draw a table with aprons and maybe a drawer.

FWIW drawing a house can be tough. The model of my home is all one component. I do not want to redraw it to make it right. ;~)

Some of the tutorials on the SU site start at the basics and work up. An excellent to see how the experts draw and make changes.

Leave the 2nd and Beyond Sketchup and 4th Layout Tile/Section out unless you have the Pro version.

AND one last thing. Just in case you are not aware. It is very easy to draw specific sizes/lengths very accurately. Yo may have already discovered this.

When drawing a line or circle start the line/circle by clicking and move the mouse in the direction you want to go. Move it any amount, it does not matter. Then type in the length/radius and hit enter. The line or circle appears/snaps exactly to the dimension you typed in.

AutoCad called that Direct Distance Entry when they introduced it. At one time youhnad to enter starting and ending co-ordinance.

[Leon]

+1

To add, I believer we all had the same difficulties that you are having. It seemed that there were simply not enough tools or accuracy to draw anything.

I like the program so much now that I have been know to draw and dimension a stick. ;~)

[dpb]

On 7/22/2018 10:45 AM, Leon wrote: ...

But I have need to get a set of plans to do the house renovation... :)

Thanks, I'll take a look...I've never set the audio up on the new system as the old speakers are just too terrible to listen to and so since in general videos need the commentary to make much sense of them I've kinda' neglected that venue...I should probably rectify that issue...

...

Yes, that I do know and have used extensively...I didn't really describe the difficulty was/am having well--it really isn't the accuracy that's the issue, it's the question of drawing the form desired if not always square/perpendicular lines efficiently from the available toolset--and again, I'm sure it's still unfamiliarity with how to use the tools as they're intended that's the bulk of the problem, not SU itself.

Anyways, thanks to all for the patience and pointers -- they have helped a lot...and I agree I need "practice, practice, practice!"; it's just that I'm trying to get something done in a short time frame and that leads to frustration...I started on this exercise a number of time in the past but got sidetracked for any number of reasons; now I believe I do have a qualified contractor interested but need to get him something to get going on specifically "real soon now" and was hoping to be able to have a basic model that could try out some ideas on without having to draw them all out by hand. I'm beginning to think for the immediate need that may be the better plan just because of the time involved in learning to use SU well enough to do what I want to do with it. That's not it's fault necessarily...

[dpb]

On 7/22/2018 11:27 AM, dpb wrote: ...

It's "That's not its fault necessarily..."

:)

[Leon]

LOL yes, but would you rather learn on something simple or complex? With complex you get too many variables coming into play. You need to understand exactly how tools work and the simpler the instruction/drawing the easier to see the results.

LOL again.... If you need glasses to see better, wear them too... ;~)

Hang in there, IMHO the program is worth the time and effort to learn. I have been using CAD programs since 1986 and I LOVE this program compared to all the rest, and I liked a few of the old one's quite a bit.

[Puckdropper]

dpb wrote in news:pj2b9a$1t3r$ [e-mail]:

When drawing a house, my suggestion is to draw a wall, make it a component and then draw another wall. Sketchup is a great program but gives me fits as I try to work on something on the overall model. Doing this way, I can select a wall component, move it to the side and change what I need to and then delete it--the changes will be saved in the component so I don't need the temporary one any longer.

You don't need to show every detail, you'll get the effect by just cutting holes in the walls for windows. You can add more as you get better at it.

The push pull tool has a neat feature: When you have an extruded wall, let's say it's a rectangle 10' by 8' by 6", and draw another rectangle on its face, you can push-pull from the front face to the back face and the rectangle will cut a hole and disappear.

Puckdropper

[dpb]

On 7/22/2018 3:38 PM, Puckdropper wrote: ...

That's a good factoring...I'd been starting with the inner/outer rectangle of the floor dimension, then using the offset tool to create the walls and then push/pull to extrude to the 3D.

I'd done that with a 1-ft high component that could stack and stretch vertically to make the two-stories plus foundation/attic to get the full height with sections between levels...thought everything was kewl until I realized I had inadvertently created that with the full overall dimensions of the house including the addition sunroom/kitchen on the south instead of the main house...it was when I tried to figure out how to simply push that north wall to the south 10' 6-1/2" it just seemed impossible to accomplish any way I could figure out. I could scale the whole thing in all dimensions, I could push on pieces but I couldn't ever get that wall plane and its edges to move as a whole.

Yeah, that is my plan...I only need to be able to create that visual; the one key issue in layout is we're trying to stretch the entry way wider but matching the existing roof pitch and keeping the intersection with the second floor sufficiently below the second floor window is the place having it able to compute and draw will be of benefit...if I ever get that far! :)

Yeah, I was aware of that...hadn't _quite_ got there yet, but I do know how that part works and it is handy over having to cut the sections out on each face independently.

Thanks for the hint...when it's 107F out, it's not too hard to spend some time continuing the quest as opposed to doing something else outside!

[Jerry Osage]

In that case it is not a good time to start learning SU.

I had the same idea - and it was a huge mistake - kinda like buying your first bike and planning to learn to ride during a 30 mile desert run.

After I did my plans the old way and completed the project I came back to SU and started the learning process. At first I didn't care about dimensions - just learning to draw simple shapes and manipulate them with the various tools and learning when to make various items into components. At this point I wasn't trying to draw anything useful - I just wanted to understand the mechanics of SU well enough to take off the training wheels.

That is the best plan. SU is not easy to learn. However, the more you learn the easier it gets. I suspect that it is easier for those who have never owned a T-square or a CAD program.

No, it's not. I still draw with a pencil, however, at this point I could probably do it in SU - but compared to a pencil and T-square it would be slow. And, I still like my plans on 18"x24" sheets...

However, with that said, I'm still learning SU - and it is getting easier - and I'm learning.

[J. Clarke]

You can have fast, cheap, and good, pick two. If you need it fast and good, and it's (a) anything at all complicated and (b) not what you do for a living, then don't plan on doing it yourself. If cheap and good are OK and you're able to sacrifice fast, that's another story.

[Bob D]

One of the things that flumoxed me was doing 3D drawing on a 2D plane. I k ept thinking that SU would represent objects as ISOmetric pictures with the XY axes running horizontal and vertical and the Z axis at 60 or 30 degrees . I kept trying to draw that way and it was always wrong. I finally learn ed to trust SU axes representations (red, green, and blue) and forget that it was looking "funny" on the page.

I'll mention one other feature by name that dramatically made things easier and faster. Its called inferencing. Its one.of the most powerful features , in my opinion. I'll leave it as an exercise for you to learn as you get more comfortable.with the tool.

Bob

[dpb]

On 7/23/2018 7:10 PM, Bob D wrote: ...

I'll mention one other feature by name that dramatically made things easier and faster. Its called inferencing. Its one.of the most powerful features, in my opinion. I'll leave it as an exercise for you to learn as you get more comfortable.with the tool. ...

It's indeed very much so and one that I was aware of being very well done in SU from reading before ever started... :)

The old 2D Drafix CAD package used had a limited amount in it so already had that familiarity with concept and use; AutoDesk bought and trashed it when it began to make some inroads as a less expensive option back in the '90s...including making sure there wasn't any available direct transition path. :(

As a sidelight, I just installed the MS virtual XP engine and was able to reopen some old files from it that had started on 10 yr or so ago...they had recorded some of the measurements I had taken that couldn't find the notes from so saved the job of remeasuring some of the more difficult access places if nothing else... :)

[Leon]

If you think your 3D drawing looks funny you may be using the wrong setting located under the Camera menu. If your drawing is set to "Parallel Projection" the objects will look out of proportion. Change the drawing to "Perspective" and all should appear balanced.

[Jack]

Along those lines (no pun intended) is paying attention to the view you are looking at. ISOmetric view is not always the view you should be drawing in. For example, if you are drawing a floor or a bounding box for a table legs or cabinet, it's super simple if you're in the TOP view. A wall, or rails or styles, front or side view. I often turn off the axis now when drawing stuff as I don't need them at all. I recall when learning SU the axis was a point of confusion. The various views made everything pretty simple as far as 3d issues are concerned.

[krw]

I also find that the drawn axes confuse things. I find it useful to rotate the model back and forth in all dimensions to get a mental 3D picture of where I am. I can often find errors that I would never see in a static model seen from any one direction.