Y'all must be one hell of a better pistol shot than me.
I don't think I can hit anything at 80' with my 1911.
And that's with me on a rest and what I'm shooting at standing still.
Remember what that old boy said, "A pistol is a weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle."
Regards,
Tom Watson
"Fill your hands, you son of a bitch!"
Regards,
Tom Watson
Amen to that.
But, if your hundred year old rifle is a 1903-A3, you have a significantly better chance than a guy with your average M16.
Regards,
Tom Watson
"Tom Watson" wrote
A long weapon is much easier to aim and hit a target than a pistol. That said, there are some folk who are just deadly accurate with a 1911. I am not one of them. But my little sister (six years younger) is. And she is much smaller than me too!
Remember that guy in Vietnam who was a crack pistol shot.? He crashed in a helicopter and held off a whole bunch of the enemy with just his 1911. Almost got the medal of honor for it too. He fired and the others reloaded his magazines for him. Obviously not a typical shot. I believe he was a nationally ranked champion.
What I admired about the shooting was that three guys shot at essentially the same time and all took out the targets.
I don't know what tech stuff they used but that's like three guys shooting buzzer shots at the final game and having them all go in.
Oh, and by the way, a guy's life was on the line.
I have enough of a hard time shooting at paper with an MOA CZ451 on a windless day at fifty yards. I get a sight picture that looks like I'm on a moving boat but I'm standing still - and so is the paper.
My hat's off to those boys.
Regards,
Tom Watson
I never heard that story - but I'd like to.
Regards,
Tom Watson
Swedish Mauser, 6.5x55, 1898. I have no experience with current AR/M/16s, but the same lessons apply. It's the shooter. ;)
nb
Sweet weapon.
The Swedes used them generalyl until the late seventies and the sniper version was still being used in Bosnia.
Wouldn't mind having one of those M/41B's.
Yeeha!
I believe you gat a neener there.
Regards,
Tom Watson
==========================
It has been awhile since I read about it. I will try to track it down. From my sometimes foggy memory, here is a few details.
It seemed that he had some kind of tricked out .45. Since he was a target shooter, that made sense. And since it fit a standard holster, he could carry it. He had some extra boxes of ammo with him at the time. The chopper crashed, There were no other weapons on board that were functional. So he started shooting his .45. And since he was such a crack shot, his shooting was deadly accurate.
I think that they tried to take the chopper for almost an hour before retreating due to heavy losses. They were later rescued. He did all the shooting. The others reloaded his magazines. Here is an example of somebody who spent countless hours punching holes in paper and had the necessary skills to save himself in a real life encounter with those skills.
Maybe the folks at rec.guns will remember some more details.
I was very careful to write "target pistol".
Here's something that I found:
Here's an incident that few have ever heard of, but probably in respect to accuracy during combat, equals that of the fabled snipers cited.
A chopper returning from a Navy SEAL Team mission over North Vietnam was hit, killing the pilot and a crew member, and wounding the co-pilot. Going into autorotation, the co-pilot managed to set the chopper down in a clearing where it was met by several rounds of enemy fire. With the M60s damaged beyond utility during the initial RPG hit and crash landing, and the only M16 thrown clear on the way down, the only firearms left were M1911s.
The remaining crew member, Petty Officer Robert J. Thomas, was carrying a match-tuned M1911A1 and several boxes of ammo. As the enemy small arms fire increased, the co-pilot and Petty Officer Thomas observed that the VC were coming out of the jungle and approaching the downed chopper, firing as they came. The crew member took out his Government Model and took careful aim at each attacking Viet Cong.
About 30 minutes later it was all over. Between reloading magazines and radioing for an evacuation, the co-pilot was pretty busy, but a rescue chopper finally arrived on the scene.
As the rescue crew landed, they noticed a sizable number of dead VC surrounding the crash site. As the downed helo's remaining crew were exfiltrated, they counted the dead VC, 37 in all. Their distances from the downed helo were from three yards to about 150 yards, and all had been shot by Petty Officer Thomas with his M1911 .45 ACP who had fired an estimated 80 rounds in total.
Petty Officer Thomas, a member of the USN Rifle and Pistol Team, was recommended for the Congressional Medal of Honor, but by the time the recommendation made its way up the ladder, the recognition was reduced to the Navy Cross. (Not to denigrate that award? my Dad had one from Korea? but to show the politics of medals.)
This incident has been cited as the only known of example of top-level combat marksmanship since Sergeant Alvin York's celebrated escapades in the battle of Meuse River-Argonne Forest during World War I.
Regards,
Tom Watson
Really? How about ten for ten?
Well, I'm shooting a tuned up Series 80 with a pull of right around
3.8 lbs and it shoots nice and straight when I clamp it up.Some folks might consider it to be a target pistol.
Depending on the target.
And the hand that holds it.
Regards,
Tom Watson
platform. I've no doubt the actual scenario wasn't even close. Yes, SEALs are trained to be excellent in this bobbing environment, which is no doubt why they are "da bomb" and why it all worked. I'm not saying it didn't. I'm saying the bullshit fantasy that some of you envision is just that. As for the ABC story?.... these ppl can't even distinguish between auto and semi-auto firearms. When it comes to the news media reporting ANYTHING about guns, you can take it to the bank, they're clueless.
nb
Muzzle loaders, too I suppose. Good F***** Lord.
I'm not sure things were any less ideal shooting from the Navy ship. And the water conditions looked about the same. I'm guessing it was pretty darn close to what they were dealing with, and even if it wasn't, that sniper made it seem like a walk in the park.
And don't lump me in with the "fantasy envisioned."
I'm trying to give proof to the tinfoil hat society that thinks it's impossible, when it was obviously somewhat routine for trained snipers. And the same evidence discredits the fantasy crowd that thinks there were all kinds of high tech gismos involved.
Bottom line is, if you "doubt even the best SEAL could" routinely make those shots, then you're the one in fantasy land.
"Tom Watson" wrote
===========================
Good work Tom. I wasn't able to find the story. Your search skills must be better than mine.
Bubba, you don't make a whole lot of sense.
That is your right, of course.
Regards,
Tom Watson
See. Here we go. "I'm guessing"
"even if it wasn't".... "seem"....
Then quit coming off as same.
So far, you've failed.
who are you arguing with? I never said anything "doubt.... best SEAL"
nb
CZ451 is .22LR. Fifty yards is a long distance for such a rifle and your results depend on the ammo you shoot. For 50 yards you _MUST_ use either subsonic or high velocity ammo to hit anything reliably. Standard velocity bullet gets subsonic at something like 30 yards so it is only good for 25 yards. You won't get a MOA precision even if you shoot from a vise.
Hands trembling is a separate issue. I met a guy at my range, a former sniper, that reliably (9 out of 10) hits a 8x12" gong at 200 yards with his
100 yr. old bolt action rifle from standing position using only iron sights.HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.