O/T: Food for thought

[Markem]

Hurricanes?

Mark

[HeyBub]

wise to make one rich.

He's right, but for the wrong reasons. We - or most of the world - can use cheap energy. We already have plenty of clean energy, it's just not cheap.

And if energy is more important than vaccines, into which he's poured billions, how about he gives upon inoculations and devote his resources to Uranium?

[Morris Dovey]

There is that aspect. OTOH, folks don't seem to much value nor draw satisfaction from that which comes their way without cost.

From the production standpoint, the effort to produce such devices for people who didn't value them and who derived no satisfaction from using them, would rather quickly become pointless.

Still, one can bone up on math and physics, delve into fluid dynamics and heat transfer, refresh the hazy thermodynics memories, and then proceed more or less directly to a design of ones own. At that point all that's needed is to get the right materials into an appropriately equipped shop and do the assembly. If you happen to have all the right stuff, I suppose it /could/ be free...

[dpb]

I'm not saying it isn't nor can't be valuable...and in the right circumstances may even have a positive payback over some time frame.

For some definition of free I suppose... :)

The "stuff" will have had to come from _somewhere_ ... and we all know what shops are: merely alternatives or substitutes for the boat or other endless resource sink. :)

There's still no free lunch (unfortunately).

[LDosser]

It wasn't that long ago that Gates was criticized for Not giving away money. Now he's being criticized for giving it away to the 'wrong' people. Thus proving no matter how much money you have, you just can't win.

[Robert Bonomi]

Is that a deliberately catty remark?

[Morris Dovey]

That was my conclusion, too. When I took a really close look, I noticed some "low hanging fruit" that offered remarkably short (2 to 3 year) payback periods. One of these, of course, is the passive solar heating panel - but there's still a fair amount of fruit on those low branches.

The big surprise for me (and for a lot of others) is that the best of the low-hanging fruit is simple, almost primitively simple, in operation but requires fairly high levels of understanding in multiple disciplines to design. I happened to be "blessed" with a whole team of patient mentors who helped me learn what I needed and steered me away from blind alleys.

Positive payback is a term worth thinking about - a lot. Direct financial payback, of course, is always satisfying - but payback can take many forms, and it's possible to aim for multiple paybacks (they're not necessarily mutually exclusive) and so /along with/ financial payback it may be possible to also have social and environmental paybacks.

I was updating the web page in my sig last week (feeling pleased that those panels had already paid for themselves) when it occurred to me to do another calculation: over the life of those panels, even if there is _no_ change to the price of propane, the savings they produce will exceed the cost of the building in which they're installed!

[Robatoy]

You win. By a whisker.

[Leon]

Could'a fooled me.

[Leon]

No kidding free energy would require heat and Al Gore is doing his best to make sure we all pay for that.

[Lee Michaels]

"Morris Dovey" wrote

I don't care how math challenged you are, those are impressive numbers!

Especially considering that this was not done in a southern state.

Besides, the southern states are all buried under snow right now! :)

[Robatoy]

month, to supply heat to a shop can stay the same, but the money changes direction. Instead of sending your money to a energy supplier, you now pay it to support an investment. The tax structure changes as well. If I, as an individual, lend my business money to buy heating equipment, I get some tax advantages and incentives as well.

[-MIKE-]

Boooooooo!

[Robatoy]

He went fur broke on that one.

[HeyBub]

Many years ago, F. Lee Bailey interviewed H.L. Hunt on PBS. Bailey asked the "are you still beating your wife question:"

"Mr Hunt, one only has to visit the men of great wealth who have made this country great with their business endeavors and made it even greater with their charities. The Rockefellers, Fords, Carnegies, and more. Why is it you've never seen fit to share your largess with those less fortunate?"

Hunt looked at Bailey as if Bailey had just eaten a bug. "I use my money to give people something better than a pretty picture to look at in some museum. I give 'em a job."

'Course Hunt was famous for bringing his lunch to work every day in a paper bag. The same paper bag.

[Robert Bonomi]

HEY!! I'm not gonna take that lion down.

[Robert Bonomi]

Are you sure about that?? _Politicians_ seem to be a never-ending source of hot air.

I'd also be tempted to offer up a successful perpetual motion machine -- the design for which was based on a woman's mouth. *snicker*

[Robatoy]

..and so never the mane shall tweet.

[Morris Dovey]

Umm - I'm not sure about Canada, but down here that hot air comes with a very large pricetag!

Free, eh? Prudence dictates that I say no more...

[Nonny]

You're lion about that.