I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray table out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up. When it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.
Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.
Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain
Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of people should be locked up .....mjh
Actually mahogany is used quite often for high end decks because it is rot and decay resistant. It is also used in the marine trades for the same reason.
-- Bill Rittner R & B ENTERPRISES Manchester, CT
snipped-for-privacy@cox.net
"Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody gets out alive" (Unknown)
...and "red" mahogany turns brown in sunlight anyway. Isn't Chippendale's furniture mostly mahogany oiled brown?
Please don't feed the trolls.
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain
Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of people should be locked up .....mjh
Can't be a man, 'cause he doesn't smoke the same cigarette I do.
You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is making the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it however he likes?
scott
I don't agree with the walnut stain, but .... I was at a Woodcraft store in Charleston,S.C. last weekend and one piece of wood that caught my eye was a finished piece of mahogany.
The finishing schedule was written on the back.
I was blown away by the results and kept expecting to see the words "sprayed finish", which didn't ever appear.
The basics was sanding,staining,sealing,top coat,sealing, more top coat,sealing,rub out.....(13-14 steps as I recall)
It was beautiful and had at least two "stains" applied to it. A cover stain of water based "dye" from Jeff Jewitt and then a "colored filler" by Behlen.
I was blown away by the finished results.....
When I asked why he stained it, he said most people(pros) will end up staining mahogany to get a "slightly darker" look than the native "pink" that mahogany often shows.
After seeing this "all hand applied" finish, I have to vote in favor of "helping" the mahogany.....
Edw> I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray table
No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his shop with consenting adults.
HOWEVER, this is more than just a guy making a tray for himself. He is a celebrity that has much influence to his audience. My mother bought Lipton tea because Arthur Godfrey advertised Lipton tea. Kids buy sneakers because the associate the brand with their favorite star. Sadly, people will be putting walnut stain on mahogany because Norm did. Celebrities do have some responsibility and can be held to a higher standard. Ed
So because some people are gullible sheep, Norm shouldn't do what he thinks is correct, right and proper for him? The argument doesn't hold water.
There is nothing fundamentally incorrect about using stain on mahogony, purists notwithstanding.
scott
As I said, I don't care what HE does, but he is a teacher, a leader, a source of supposedly good information. He should be teaching how it could be finished, not just doing what he wants with no explanation. .
Yes, gullible sheep will do exactly as he does. How many times have you seen a request for plans here asking "I want to make an 8" burfl, but the only plans I could find are for 6" burfls" because the twit has no concept of adding two inches to a couple of dimensions? Same with finishing
If he shows a piece of the natural mahogany and one with stain, I may have thought nothing of it, but he leads people to belived that wood must be stained. I'm sure you don't agree, but I think he should encourage free thinking, not just doing it one way.
I like Norm, but I also know that an awful lot of people watch his show and think "I could do that if only I had all that stuff." We 'wreckers all know that tools are only part of the equation. I know that if I had Tom Plamann's shop, I still couldn't build one of his stairways anytime soon. In time, maybe, but I certainly know there's a lot of talent and hard work behind the finished products. I can go on and on about people looking at a creation of mine and commenting on the tools. I think Norm often makes things look too easy.
However, Norm does seem to have that bias towards a certain company's finishing products. I don't know if it's lack of knowledge about other stuff or pure sponsor pressure.
I'd at least like to see the guy use a GOOD quality stain like Mohawk/Behlen's. Or maybe talk about oils vs. dyes vs. pigments vs. combinations of all of the above, and show the difference. A mention of stock selection, considering the part, would be excellent as well. At least he's spent a minute or two on milk paint.
I don't see a problem with staining mahogany at all. I do have a problem with staining mahogany with 'el cheapo products!
OTOH, David Marks seems to put Tung Oil on EVERYTHING!
Barry
He does make it look easy. I've never seen him do a work around because he did not have the right tool. We might use a router and table saw and drill press and tweak with planes and chisels to get a ceratin cut, but Norm just puts in on the Binford Wood-O-Matic and pushes the button.
While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.
If they aren't smart enough to realize that the project isn't *really* built in half an hour, they don't deserve a Wood-O-Matic.
Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever enough to have noticed that.
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide" scribbled:
Mike, Mike, Mike. Won't you ever learn:
NORM RULES!! Norm bashing is not countenanced in this newsgroup under any circumstances. Norm is perfect and he has the best workshop with all the best tools. He is the greatest woodworker in the whole wide world and in all of history. HE IS NOT TOM SILVA'S WATER BOY!!!
Norm does not make mistakes and does the finest woodworking that is humanly possible. Norm always does everything in the best possible way. He is better than Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, James Krenov, Sam Maloof, Tom Plamann, Ian Kirby and all those other phoneys and rip-off artists who claim they can hand-plane a bench-top to within 1/1000 of an inch, all put together. If enough people built things the way Norm does and bought the same tools he has, the world would be a much better place. Nailers and bisquick joiners make the best joints for attaching wood and cross grain construction is perfect if you use enough brads and biscuits and glue. No need for expensive clamps if you've got a brad nailer. Schlepping glue all over your project with a wet rag saves on finishing. Minwax stain and poly is unquestionably the best finish. Anybody who thinks different or who dares criticize Norm is just jealous. If you hate him so much, why do you keep watching his show?
As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god. Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff said!
Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional, anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these projects are not done in 30 minutes.
As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter. At least in other show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house renovation. So why not someone who knows at least the rudiments of finishing in his other show . After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh
I know I have sinned, I have sinned and sinned ,oh woe is me I have sinned......mjh
Of course they're instructional. I defy anyone to not learn something from them.
I think you do a disservice to rank amateurs...and place too much emphasis on what the show is or isn't, or what you think it should be.
You say that as though it's a crime.
Like the project where he got finishing tips from a professional finish restorer? And the projects subsequent to that where he has mentioned he's employed those tips in the currennt project?
Please. What "rudiments" of finishing does he not know? If you're just a finishing snob, then there's no correct answer. So many finishing snobs blindly prostrate themselve at the altar of David Marks and his incessant tung oil use that they get completely lathered at their perception of what the *right* finish shoudl be.
Honestly, you sound as bad as the guy who posted a while back that Norm doesn't show the proper respect for the wood. What hogwash.
Crap? Norm has done polyurethane, wax, modified French polish, tung oil, and a couple of others that I can't recall. Are they all crap, or is it just one or two you think are crap?
I suppose the same naysayers who rail on him about "doing a whole project in 30 minutes" figure he's doing a crap finish because he "does it alll in the last two minutes of the program."
Not one time have I heard any one of these same people say what finish it is that he *ought* to be doing.
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
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