Norm's mahagany finish

[Edwin Pawlowski]

They laid the guy out on the table?

[Larry Jaques]

On 25 Feb 2004 10:16:03 -0800, [e-mail] (Larry Bud) brought forth from the murky depths:

Right. And that's a good reference. There should be similar punishment for either of the two crimes.

--Friends don't let friends use stain--

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[LRod]

Uh, did it occur to you that he wasn't staining the mahogany to look like walnut? Do you think maybe he was using a stain that happened to be walnut colored to give the mahogany a different hue.

- - LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

[Mike Hide]

No, this was a traditional reception after the funeral. The friends put hot chafing dishes and hot plates on the table without place mats and the like ....mjh

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Did you see the show? He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help with the color. That should be left to the user, not the man with a lot of influence over how people do woodworking. Yes,he does have a lot of influence as all TV personalities do.

Of course it does not matter what my opinion is, you will defend his right to have a poor influence over many people's choices. If you go back to my oringinal post, I was saying it was a terrible choice. I stated my opinion. I'm sure it will not change YOR opinion. I guess the difference is that while I like the guy, you seem to adore him and made a shrine of sorts to his show. Good for you. My mind is a bit more open when it comes to Norm. He does a lot of nice things and I've learned some things fromhism, but I also know that just like me, he has faults. -- Ed [e-mail]

[LRod]

Every single one of them.

You inferred that. He implied it. I said it outright.

Uh, that would be him. Or Morash. In either case...

So because someone has a lot of influence (blah, blah, blah) they are no longer permitted to make the choices that you confer on other users?

Ahhh, I guess we're done with the issues and on to straw men. A shrine? It's just a reference work. Doesn't even editorialize on his "choices."

Saying it is so, doesn't make it so.

Yes, let's clear the channels of all except those without faults.

- - LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

[p_j]

are vastly superior because you are more than "just a carpenter." Paneling as well as built ins are typically done by carpenters.

It includes several unusual design elements like the odd space next to the desk, the narrow panel next to the windows, the narrow mitered casings in the context of the room, use of a chair rail and use of baseboard rather than use of the lowest rail.

Many people who are just carpenters would consider those errors.

As for the finish, I personally don't care for undarkened plain sawn oak. With the excessive detail and raised panels (another unusual choice) it is loud to say the least.

I'm surprised the room didn't have a coffered ceiling.

The computer desk has some odd design choices as well particularly the miter to divide it where strength is needed and the joint is obvious, but what I'm curious about is what you are? You refer to Nahm as "just a carpenter" and I'm curious what one becomes when being a carpenter is transcended?

[p_j]

You mean a dozen or more right?

Putting on a stain doesn't convert the wood.

Then you'd have wreckers calling you a carpenter, a hack, inept, etcetera because you used poly.

[p_j]

No, but I'm curious about the historical context of the piece. Please share, especially the wood, finish and patina

No, YOU inferred.

... or a different opinion

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I did? I thought the mahogany was just fine. He said it was not, thus the NEED for stain. Yes, I did capitalize NEED because he said mahogany is just too red and he had to put stain on it. .

It was a show with a 1994 copyright. If you want to see it, perhaps it is still available on tape.

I'm sorry, I did not realize he is perfect. Thanks for pointing out that his "faults" are just a different opinion than mine. Ed

[Edwin Pawlowski]

But if he wants to educate, he should offer choices, show options. Not just say "mahogany is too red so I'm adding walnut stain." It would be better to show the natural wood with a finish and then go on to express his opinion and do the stain.

See above statement. People ARE influence by his choices and decisions. He can make any choice he wants. If I'm instructing people, I show them options. Ed

[B a r r y]

A finishing special would be interesting.

Barry

[Charlie Self]

Ed Pawlowski states:

You're kidding, right? Or you've never seen the Parkersburg "news personalities." I've gotten so I can barely watch the show for fits of laughing at their malapropisms and general lack of knowledge about any subject whatsoever, including how to speak the English language. I guess that's influence, but I don't think it's what you mean.

Basically, a person watching, or reading, has some obligation to the material, to learn enough to make a judgment call. If that isn't done, then whatever that person gets is probably close to what he deserves.

Yeah, I know tyros need more help, but forcing a show to cater only to tyros is limiting the show drastically.

I've seen mahogany that is helped by staining, as I've seen walnut and cherry that are helped by staining. Someone else might disagree with me: hell, I like the natural color of white oak, but these days unfumed white oak seems to be anathema to most woodworkers. Personally, I don't much care for the emphasis fuming places on the rays: they're much more attractive (to me) in a more natural state.

So, as used to be said in the '70s, different strokes for different folks.

I'm glad you guys got all the faults. :)

Charlie Self I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected.

[Mike Hide]

Thanks for the compliment, I can assure you it is not justified, your description not mine .

And for information these are not typical built ins as done by carpenters ,that's why I was asked to do the job . Again I am sure if a carpenter could have done the job there were plenty on site including trim carpenters that the superintendent ,architect or even the customer could have selected .

Regarding the area next to the door the architect specified the cased door opening even the double doors. My initial design was a single door opening to the side of the bookcase. In addition the Carpenters had screwed up the wall in this room to accommodate equipment in the room behind it.the actual door frame area was bumped out nearly 9 inches from the wall plane.

Each double door is 13" wide and is designed to fit inside the door casing so that when open they look like a continuation of the regular room wall paneling .Both doors have to be open as there is not sufficient access to get into the room . Normally with a double door entrance one door can remain closed and there is still sufficient room to provide access.

I designed it but had to incorporate these stipulations by the architect and the customer.

So to answer you question that is the reason for the small recessed panel between the bookcase and the cased doorway.It does have its points I suppose as there are more exposed outside corners in the moldings which always gives more interest .

As far as the narrow panel next to the windows, those areas were left by the carpenters when they framed the windows. Perhaps you would have had them run the windows all the way into the adjacent walls, in my view that would have been a disaster.

As far as what you call a "built in" that is actually a fitted breakfront . Under the left hand bookcase are two lateral file cabinets .under the right hand bookcase are provisions for a printer, fax machine,scanner, paper et al.

All the doors as can be seen mirror the paneling under the chair rail area of the room . The chair rail area above the knee hole flips down and pulls out housing a keyboard and an area for a mouse pad, of course the center section houses the computer monitor behind rollback doors using a mechanism of my own design [featured long before the commercial ones of today, grass hinges on drawerslides] .

Of course they would particularly if they were uninformed

As for the finish, I personally don't care for undarkened plain sawn

Well believe it or not it is stained, and giving the customer several options that is what HE liked and lets face it that is what matters. Just as Norm decided to put a walnut stain on a perfectly good piece of mahogany, which poses the question to the likes of me or perhaps Ed ,why not in that case use poplar, or some other inexpensive wood rather than something that can be made beautiful. Presumably from all accounts Norm decided that mahogany was too red [I did not see the show personally] that was his reasoning for using a walnut stain. I my opinion that shows ignorance of the basics of finishing . Again inasmuch that the finishing can make or break a piece of furniture the people who run the show should get Norm off the screen and get a qualified finisher like Jewitt on the program for a whole series to teach the ins and outs of finishing

It seems to me this would be an excellent idea [even if it comes from me ] given the numerous posts on this group concerning finishing problems .

As far as the raised panels and the details, believe it or not some folks have liked their rooms done like that for the last 400 years

I'm surprised the room didn't have a coffered ceiling.

the ceiling was a disaster. There was an added room above this room so the ceiling joists were doubled up and additional supports added .No attempt was made to make sure the ceiling was level or even the lower surface of the scarfed in joists were coplanar. In the left hand corner above the "built in" the ceiling dropped 2" in just over a foot. furthermore the normal pitfalls were still there ,no corners plumb no corners square no walls flat etc.

Sorry I have no idea what you are referring to, however I can assure you there is plenty of strength desi gned into the desk.

What am I, just a guy trying to make a living and doing what I like to do best. What does one become when one transcends being a carpenter ? I have no idea, but I would as You obviously believe they are already Gods, where is there to go?

mjh

[Ken Muldrew]

[great stuff on finishing wood that isn't necessarily flat]

Thanks for that. I always thought that French polish wouldn't work well on carved surfaces because it would be hard to avoid stopping in places. The one carved chair I have made I brushed on shellac and rubbed it out with a 3M grey pad + rottenstone. I wasn't really happy with the finish (nor with the carving) but less discriminating folks seem to like the chair (good design, probably).

BTW, I took your advice from last year and purchased "Fine Furniture for the Amateur Cabinetmaker" by Andy Marlow. I've just about finished with the practice projects. It's a great book and a very enjoyable way to work wood. Thanks for the recommendation.

Ken Muldrew [e-mail] (remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

[Mike Hide]

My pleasure ,I think that little book is great for all levels of woodworking, in my opinion it certainly contributes to the craft more than most these days do, and you cannot beat the price .

As far as french polishing chairs it is not the easiest thing to do especially from scratch .my procedure is to sand the crap out of them first then stain using a NGR stain then polish pad the polish in . make the pad cone shaped and use the nose to get into the tight spots .You will need a pretty damp almost wet rubber to get into any carved detail and you will also need to punch it into the carved detail pretty forcefully . give the polish time to dry before hitting the area again when yo get into a corner use a circular motion never stopping in one spot ,the addition of a small drop of lindseed oil will help also to lube he rubber, but use it sparingly if not you will end up with smears in the finish . To et rid of these smears essentially you will need to pad them out with straight alcohol. Always remember practice makes perfect and very few of us are there yet, but the rewards are worth striving for....regards mjh

[p_j]

Go look up the word.

You thought, he thought... sounds like opinions, yet you boldly declare that he is unquestionably wrong.

What was the historical context? Wood? Finish? Patina?

Thanks but I'll just wait for the rerun to come around. Come to think of it I wonder if the library carries them.

Don't apologize to me for anything. The straw man is worthless though.

I sure don't think he is perfect. I know I'm not. I know that I can learn something from just about everyone including wreck regulars, lurkers and otherwise.

Do you still think that coloring mahogany is a fault?