Very inaccurate. In my company, we can ship a single item that will cost
maybe $50 to process and minute later ship a triler of floor loaded product
that takes 3 people 90 minutes. Should I add the cost and divide by to to
get my actual cost per order? If the same exact process has to be gone throu
for each order, it will work, but if a $5000 order takes more time to
process, pull, pack, ship, than a $20 order, the average would be scewed.
In the case of the belt, they should have them to just drop in an envelope,
put on a label and stamp and it is done. That is far less than gathering
six items, packing them for a single shipment weiging and doing a UPS
shipment. How about a truckload order that takes over and hour load on the
Ah, but I didn't say it was a useful number. One
would be a fool to just put all orders in a pile
and divide the cost by the number of orders. That
sounds almost like what they did for the belt.
It makes little sense to combine highly different
activities and charge the same for each activity.
Most local firms, for example, have an at store
price and a delivery cost. That makes sense and
lets the customer choose and if the store is
honest and charges the actual delivery cost, it
should make any difference to the store.
Separating handling charges from the actual cost
tends to be fraudulent anyway, since customers
often/usually look at the item cost, compare
companies, and then are shocked by the handling
and shipping costs. If the handling cost is
actually a part of the item cost, it should be
handled that way. A company that sell items for
delivery (mail order for example) shouldn't be
charging much more for delivery than the actual
cost of mail or freight; the handling charge
should be included in the selling price just like
other operating costs.
If you sell strictly mail-order, you can include the handling costs as part
of the price. If you sell both retail and mail-order, the handling cost
will be different for each and will vary according to order size.
The problem with including handling charges in the price is competition. No
one want to be first to do it. I've seen a few TV infomercials where they
sell you some junk for $19.99 and you get a second one free, just pay
separate shipping and handling charges. Now that is pure scam as they know
ahead they will be giving you two and it is no more time to pull two from
the bin as it is to pull one.
That depends on the method they're using. If they have all the product
warehoused at FedEx then FedEx may have it prepackaged for example
(warehousing of products that will be shipped via FedEx is a service FedEx
Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
I suspect the original belt is made by Gates. Give them a call and
find a distributor that does not gouge on price and shipping.
Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not,
and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order the
part from your local dealer.
What makes you think they have useless staff?
Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as
theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
The great thing about captialism in America is that the business gets to
decide what distribution channels it wants to use.
So did you buy your car directly from GM or did Henry Ford come to your
house to help you pick a color? Yes, it gripes me to pay the destination
charge on a car that I could easily pick up at the factory myself. Oh, them
sumbitches need some enlightening.
My view is as valid as
It may be your view, but it probably won't change things very much. You do
get to vote with your dollars though, and can buy whatever brand you want
from whatever sources it is available. For maximum efficiency, some choose
to set up for direct sales, others do not as they typicaly don't have the
volume of sales to justify the cost of doing so.
My company has a minimum of $300 for stock items. Much more for special
runs, usually about $100 with no setup charge. While it is not a consumer
oriented business, it is not profitable do do less so we don't. We won't
ship UPS or mail because it takes to much time and cost to much to pack the
stuff for it. OUr choice. We lost two customemers when we implemented that.
You can have an opinion. Useless to you, but not tot he distributors they
I have purchased a few Pontiacs from one of the GM Zone offices
in the past BEFORE they stopped the practice.. Was a nightmare however
to register the 1st Car however... The State DMV was unsure how to
handle the " Certificate of Origin" That GMAC handed me.. it was a
learning experience to say the least....
I also purchased one of my Corvettes with Museum (Factory Delivery)
not only did I pay normal destination charges as if I picked it up
from the local dealer but I also plunked down 500 bucks ( extra for
the privilege top pick it up myself...).. It was worth it however
since I followed the car thru its final production and was allowed to
be the 1st to start it up and drive it off the assembly line myself...
It's the same in most of the world, and the great thing about
democracy is that I get to decide where to spend my dollars.
Have done neither. I get them from other folk, then do them up.
OK you win, I'm sure Jet's processes and systems will run a lot more
efficiently and economically without those annoying customers
demanding this and that. I'll oblige.
Actually, there is little to separate most of the biggies on price and
performance, so here's an opportunity for one company to really
differentiate itself from the pack. Offer same-day dispatch, minor
parts for free, and others at a modest cost without gouging on
shipping. If the tools are as reliable as they claim, it will hardly
cost them, and their customers will be delighted. Otherwise the sour
Fair enough, your company, keep working on losing customers.
Sounds like me and my opinion are worthless to JET, fair enough. In
the next 6 months, I'll be picking up a bit of equipment, so
after-sales service and policy will be considered.
Umm, lots of people use to do that if they had the
time, especially since they could save about $1000
which was nearly 1/4 years salary. But I think
the dealer franchises put a stop to that long ago.
Otoh, my neighbor last fall flew half way across
the U.S. and drove his new motorhome back, saving
$10,000 over the sales price of a local dealer.
Might not be much for high living folk, but for
over 50 percent of the working people it is 3
months salary. Not bad for a 4 day trip.
Actually, they are in the mail order business, or more precisely the online
order business if you want to split hairs about ordering via the Internet
not being "mail order". By that token Sears isn't in the mail order
business and Sears _invented_ the mail order business. But perhaps you're
too young to be familiar with "mail order" that actually uses the mail.
As far as Amazon goes, Amazon doesn't keep any stock, they pass the order
through to whoever does have the stock, just like many other online
resellers. Usually with Amazon it goes to Ingram, the major wholesaler of
books in the US, who then drop-ships to the customer. So they're using a
different business model from either Sears or Jet.
The real issue seems to be that Jet hasn't figured out that the manner in
which they provide spart parts is part of their marketing effort and they
should do so in a manner that makes the customer feel that he wants to buy
more stuff from Jet. Many folks buy from Sears because Sears has parts for
30 year old tools and appliances available on their Web site, orderable
with minimal effort and at a reasonable price.
Whatever semantics or labels you use, they are still in the business
of business, ie: offering something a customer wants in exchange for a
fair price. That is a fundamental.
Too young? Hardly! I see in my 1902 Sears catalogue Stanley planes
are priced from 9c to 37c.
Exactly, so what's hard about copying the best bits of some others'
"business model" ? IF they cared about customers, they could do it.
That they choose not to, is their business, but illustrates how they
see customers. or ex-customers to be more correct.
OK - the problem I have with that theory of what businesses are in
business to do is this:
If I work hard and decide to spend money on your product, I want it to
work as advertised, and if it breaks or wears out, I want to be able to
fix it in a reasonable period of time. Something like a belt breaking
or needing to be replaced should not keep the tool out of commission for
I mean - a table saw uses blades that you should be able to buy from
damn near any store. When the blade gets dull, or you need a different
blade for cutting plywood instead of ripping 2x, you can go anywhere to
get the blade. Can you imagine how tough it would be to work with a
tool if they used a proprietary blade that you could only get from them?
You would be at the mercy of the supply chain.
And today - with this "just in time" bullshit, the stores don't stock
the parts you need. One store sells a miter gauge for a table saw, but
not the hold-down clamps. If the saw needs a belt, ant the belts
sgtretch or break or wear out, then they should stock the belts, or have
a way to get them sooner rather than later.
One other problem is that with these companies merging, buying each
ohter out, or moving offshore, is that the parts come from all over the
damn place from companies in bumfuck china or wherever, and they don't
make the parts but every so many months. Or the dealer only orders
parts from Delta or a distributor every month or so - or worse -
whenever they have sold a certain volume of parts and tools per some
corporate bean counter. This is for no other reason than to hit some
target profit level dictated by some beancounter who feels that the
companies business isn't to make a tool - it's to get a return on
investment whether they sell saws or package up bags of dogshit. They
don't care about your needs, or even doing a good job - they only care
about their almighty dollar!
Barry Lennox wrote:
Reasonable expectations. Parts should also be available for a few years
after a model is dicontinued.
That would change the dynamices of a tool buying decision. OTOH, if your
transmission fails on your Chevy, you may have to buy a GM part to get if
fixed. Sure, starters and alternators are readily available on the
aftermarket, but if you need a new door, it may have to come from a GM
dealer. You are very much at the mercy of the supply chain.
Maybe. If a store sell two lathes a years, should he have a belt in stock
at all times? How long to belts last? That $20 belt willl tie sup maybe
412 for a few years waiting for someone to buy it. Bandsaw blades wear out
a few times a year so they stock a lo tof them. If you are that conerned,
why don't you keep a spare in the shop? Most companies carry a stock of
parts for machines that they know will fail over time. We probably have
$20,000 in motors, hydraulip pumps, water pumps, solenoids, controllers,
etc. Some sit for a long time, but if needed, it is nice to have rahter
than have a machine down and not produce $500 an hour. If you are concerned
about your saw losing a belt late at night, keep a spare. Prudent to do so.
Yes, that can be a problem
You and I contribute to this problem. (Insert Pogo quote here) What was
the return on your stock portfolio, IRS or 401k plan? When stocks do not
perform we bitch and want to see better performance, more profits.
Some do, others do have honest concerns. They MUST make a profit though, or
they cannot continue to serve you with spart parts, new products, etc. Do
you think ball players are more concerned with winning the game or making
millions? Movie stars? IMO, a lot of things should be changed but we have
to all get together on it.
So they have to pay a salary to the poor lady you abused on the phone.
They have to pay a salary to the person who picks the order, the one
who packs the order, packing materials cost, inventory depreciation,
and the actual shipping costs. The margin on that belt, while
perhaps significant (a GPM of 30-40% probably), is peanuts when compared
to the salaries of all the folks doing the S+H. TANSTAAFL.
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