New Unisaw - The flag is back

Back in the early 60s, a guy named Tinkham Veal, a Clevelander, formed Alco Standard, basically a holding company.

Aimed at the sole proprietor of a $3-$5Meg business..

The idea was that Alco would provide all of the overhead services such as human services, legal, etc, thus freeing up time to concentrate on growing the business.

In return, the sole proprietor would exchange their stock for Alco stock

Was successful back then, have no idea where things stand today.

Reply to
Lew Hodgett
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That's clearly true. But I'd suggest - at least at the Big Picture level - that there will always be a demand for high value/quality goods and people will pay a premium for it. For example, my first passion in life is not woodworking but traditional B&W silver chemical photography. My field camera is a hand made wooden box (Honduran quarter sawn mahogany and shiny brass) that I paid a *lot* for. Why? Because it is a superbly executed instrument that nothing else can touch in its class. It does thing that *no* digital camera, at any price can do (including the $40K Hasselblad H-39). The manufacturer, Wisner, has a nice little high end business, building the "best" of something for people who know the difference. So, while mass manufacturing will migrate to the lowest cost producer (in a commodity market, the lowest cost producer always win), I believe there will always be room for crafstmen to make Ferraris, Steinways, and so on.

I think it is happening already and a lot faster than many people realize. Indian IT outsourcing is taking a real hit because of wage inflation. Europeans are starting to build factories here in the US. For the moment this is because of the Dollar/Euro ratio. But in the not so distant future I think all this new technology and the success of global trade and markets is going to drive work to be done by whoever does it *best* at a fairly constant (currency adjusted) price. I too hope that Delta succeeds here, but not because "The flag is back" but because I love seeing high quality anything being made ... no matter where and by whom.

Reply to
Tim Daneliuk

It turned into IKON Office Solutions. 8 of the subsidiaries bought themselves out and formed Alco Industries, based in Norristown, PA.

Reply to
J. Clarke

I think a track for a feather board would be a nice improvement and or a way to keep the far end of the fence down to make a feather board applying downward pressure more effective.

Reply to
Leon

Quick change for the faces is nice, too. Check the HTC.

Reply to
Charlie Self

Love to get one of these. Years ago, I did an endurance report on what might have been one of the last USA made Unisaws, for WWJ. It would be fun to do a back-up with this one, see how it compares, and how many problems crop up over a year. What improvements are real; what improvements are marketing. Take the lid off and check the trunnions for size and machining and the complexity--and size and quality--of any lift and tilt gearing that differs from the original Unisaw. Check how difficult the saw could be to adjust in 10-15-20 years, not that I'll be checking tablesaws at those times, but others will. Check prices. Yeah, this has to be for what Lew calls the "carriage trade" for a series of reasons. Chinese labor costs may have risen considerably, but they are nowhere near most U.S.labor costs. Pollution controls in the U.S. add to costs, as do other environmental regs. Insurance costs are higher here. U.S. cast iron probably still draws a premium. Add to that the simple fact that they're apparently pushing this saw as a complete item. Will they offer the basic saw and let the woodworker build his/her own tables, drawers, etc.? At the moment, it doesn't sound like that is going to happen. I'd also like to see if there are plans to follow the Steel City example and make a solid granite top available.

I wish it a solid success.

But I also wonder if they'll offer the basic Unisaw as, say, Unisaw Classic.

Reply to
Charlie Self

Alas, Tim, the world is not quite so black and white as you see it. Everything doesn't have to be either ultra high end or cheap crap.

And, when you're buying something that's supposed to have some fairly decent level of quality that no longer does (e.g. Delta, made in China), but they still want their premium price (though not the $ of the ultra high end stuff, but not cheap), it's problematic.

GMs problems, even from a cursory look-see appear to go well beyond those #^%*$ unions.

We're not living inside a computer w/it's limitations to 1 and 0.

Renata

Reply to
Renata

He didn't say he SEES it that way.

He said he PHOTOGRAPHS it that way...

Reply to
Fred the Red Shirt

Their stock prices haven't done well for quite some time. They were going pretty well when they had Delta, afterwards, they lost a significant amount of value and have been hovering in the $34 to $37 range, off from highs in the low 40's.

Reply to
Mark & Juanita

The market will solve this problem - in the not so long run people will not pay premium prices for junk.

No - their executives are morons too - but the unions are the primary problem. Do the math. Look at what the eeeeeeevil execs have taken out of the company and then the insane payments the unions have extorted. The exec compensation is rounding error by comparison.

I don't claim the world is that binary. But markets have a funny way of punishing stupidity and sloth. I am currently in the market to replace my old Chevy truck. Chevy is begging for my business with unbelievable rebates. The problem? I don't know if they can survive long enough to support the warranty period, let along the very long run I tend to own a vehicle. I think I am buying a Japanese product. This is the market doing its job. Perhaps someday, the UAW worker who is getting full wages and benefits without having worked for years may get clued in their that their avarice destroyed a national institution. Then again... perhaps not.

Reply to
Tim Daneliuk

More precisely, my nice B&W film and paper see it that way ;)

Reply to
Tim Daneliuk

The tool group was the top performing business that they owned until they embarked on the disasterous consolidation strategy in 2000. Measuring the key components ROS, ROIC, cash flow, organic growth, the tool group was an extremely high performing business.

Then they decided to kill the goose to look for the gold.......

The present value of the equity loss will never be recovered, but I believe there have been and will be entry points that will be attractive going forward. Additionally, there is always that "teaser" thrown out by analysts that they are a prime candidate to be bought by someone bigger. The recent joint venture with G. E. rekindled that dream.

Dividend is steady at just about 2% and most analyst have them at a hold or better.

Frank

Reply to
Frank Boettcher

Snip

I worked for GM dealerships, and sold wholesale GM parts for many years. I have owned 2 GM trucks and my 3rd truck is an 07 Toyota Tundra. I started out with appointments to drive GMC, Chev, and Toyota. I was so disappointed in the GM products ride quality and feel that I almost said I'll wait a few more years. The local GMC dealer called me at home after my first visit and offered me an "extremely" good deal on the truck I wanted and a good trade in price on my 97 Chevy PU. IIRC $18,000 drive out. I drove the GMC trucks again and went to the Toyota dealer and drove the Tundra. The Tundra was $5,000 more than the GMC and I had no problem with paying the difference. The Toyota ride and feel was that much better.

Do yourself a favor and at least test drive the Tundra.

Reply to
Leon

When I said "truck", I really meant "SUV". I have driven a Tundra, and I agree that they are really well screwed together machines. Alas, an SUV serves my day-to-day purposes better than a pick-em-up truck. So, I think I am going to retire my '95 Tahoe (with which I was 98% happy) with a a new Nissan Pathfinder - which is much more to my liking than the new Tahoes with their endless list of useless "features" designed to grab the soccer mom crowd and of no value at all when hauling wood, skis, scuba tanks, and so forth. What's really astonishing is that when I ask the Chevy dealers to get me a base model vehicle with only a few options, their almost universal response is "we don't bring them in that way." OK, and I don't buy them any other way. Still ... they are knocking $10K off the price these days which means the Tahoe - even pimped out some - is monetarily attractive.

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Reply to
Tim Daneliuk

Toyota now has the Tundra looking SUV but if you want smaller the Pathfinder should fill the bill.

A little insight in to how the great pricing rebates work now days. Right now production on new 08 vehicles have pretty much stopped. Incentives are aimed at relieving dealer inventory. Even in the Spring when vehicles are still in production the incentives will be better if you pick something off of the dealers lot. Dealers to trade, but dealers usually do not want to trade a vehicle that is more likely to sell for one that is less likely to sell. Especially now with gas prices being inflated a stripped down unit will be more desirable than a more expensive one with lots of options. Dealerships typically do not own their vehicle inventory and pay a hefty floor plan interest on a monthly basis to the manufacturers. I recall a 400 unit inventory of Oldsmobile's in the mid 80's typically cost the dealership about $1.2 million per year just to have them sitting on the lot. With today's prices that figure is probably 2 to 3 times higher, so the dealers really want to turn their inventory rather than trade or order a new unit. I "was" going to order my Tundra and put the order together with the dealer but buying off the lot I got an additional $3,000 off of the already $4,000 incentive price reduction in July of last year. I would imagine most all dealerships are offering better deals these days.

A cautionary word about American Nissan, their sales have been pretty poor in the last few years and they have been partnered up with Renault IIRC. Their financial situation is not great either although probably better than the old big 3. Have you noticed how many times their flag ship car the Maxima has been redesigned in the last 4 or 5 years?

One more hint that works well in a big city, use an online service like kbb.com or autobytel.com to set up an appointment with a local dealership to test drive a car. Typically the dealership will contact you with a price that is based off of dealer invoice. This will afford you the opportunity to buy any model on the lot without having to worry about different mark ups on different models.

Reply to
Leon

They also make the 4Runner, based on the Tacoma.

Reply to
B A R R Y

Leon wrote: ...

...

For a truck to use as a real truck I see no advantage whatsoever in the Tundra. AFAIK still no diesel available(?), higher price, lower payload, and at least here the resale value is, if not terrible, not good (worse than Ford, even)...

Dodge is by far top farm truck locally, followed by Chevy. Ford is tops in the oil patch fleets by a (relatively slim) margin over Chevy. Dodge hasn't made inroads there for some reason in the fleet sales.

I've stayed w/ Chevy simply because everything we've ever had has been a Chevy going back to the '28 I learned to drive in (and which we used daily as a feed wagon until the late '50s) and consequently know the dealership so thoroughly there's no reason to switch. I'm sure could get by w/ the Tundra (the same dealership also has Toyota but they outsell the Tundra by >10:1 w/ Chevy for work-oriented trucks according to Pete). Their Toyota auto says are about even w/ GM products, however.

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Reply to
dpb

From what I understand, Toyota will be offering the Tundra in a diesel dualy soon.

I guess it all depends on what the local economy can afford. In Houston the ratio appears to be much greater, you see lots more new Tundra's than you see new Ford, GM and Dodge combined.

Reply to
Leon

Leon wrote: ...

I doubt a tenth of them are "real work" work trucks...

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Reply to
dpb

i have a 90 4runner, purchased new in 89. 160k miles. i can fit 4x8 plywood in it flat, with about 2' hanging over the downed tailgate. i've spent (maybe) $2k for repairs on it besides routine maintenance. it is truly a rock.

Reply to
charlie

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