No, it is not a shipping problem. If you shipped 100 widgets and they all arrive broken, do you blame the carrier or the way it is packed? You step back and evaluate to problem and correct it. You either make the part stronger, mount it better, or cushion it more for handling.
It is a design problem. Saws get shipped. Components must be made strong enough to withstand handling during shipping and be packed accordingly.
Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net
Ed Pawlowski responds:
I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping problem: Has the packing for shipping changed recently, because this is, AFAIK, a fairly recent problem for Unisaws. The motor used to be pretty solidly bolted in one place, reducing stress on numerous parts. Is that still the case? I know on a lot of lighter--job site--saws with motors mounted, styrofoam blocks are used, wedged in to keep the motor from jerking around. Has Delta resorted to something similar for the Unisaw, which might be the cause of the breakage (the Unisaw 3 HP motor is a LOT heavier than the little motors used on the job site saws--hell, the whole saw doesn't weight what the motor does on the Unisaw)? Unisaws have never had major problems with trunnion breakage, IME, until recently. Is it possible the trunnion was re-engineered to a price point?
Is it possible handling during shipping with some companies has gotten rougher? No saw should be expected to stand up to a 2-3 foot drop to a roadbed, or similar surface, but I've been told that that kind of thing does happen on occasion.
We hear about the Unisaws. Is it possible that similar, but unreported, problems exist with other, similar, saws?
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
My dealer gets broken Unisaws also. It is not just the problem with the freight company. Other brand tools get shipped with out as many broken trunnions.
Exactly. Let the dealer deliver the one to you that is not broken. Let him return the broken one.
Well I don't think poorly engineered so much as a loss of quality control. I don't think the trunnions have change much in the last 30 or 40 years, although I could be wrong here.
Exactly, you don't hear of other brand saws with broken trunnions.
It might still be a shipping problem. If the packaging of the product is different enough from other brands, then that's still shipping. There's good ways and there's less beneficial ways to attach products to wooden palettes. Even the way a palette is constructed could be responsible. Even if it is a quality control problem, it must be a nagging concern for Delta.
Packaging is part of the design so It is still a design problem; either in the trunion or the packaging. Something has to be changed. The design must take into consideration shipping. I have not done it for a few years, but I've designed protective packaging for shipping containers. Most were designed to meet National Safe Transit Association standards. Other were designed for real life circumstances.
I've seen electronic units (similar to computers) that worked well, looked good, functioned properly, but could not take handling to the company's own shipping department let alone actually get out the door. Dumb designs that save $1.20 and 45 seconds on the assembly line, but let a 20 pound power supply crash into a $5000 circuit board. We could design a package to handle most any problem, but it is often far cheaper to fix the product or add a couple of screws.
Delta trunions have been controversial for the three or so years I've been hanging around this newsgroup. It is not a once in a lifetime rarity, it happens far too often. The problem should have been resolved by now. Change the design of the trunion, change the design of the way it is mounted, or use packaging with proper energy absorption. By now, someone should have determined what makes them break. Make the casting heavier, a different material, different heat treating, different bolts, different torque.
Facilities are readily available for package testing.. These include drop tests, inclined plane, vibration to simulate riding in a trailer. Major companies that sell packaging have some or all of the equipment to do the testing. UPS maintains a couple of testing laboratories and will certify you packing for UPS shipment (Unisaws too heavy and large though), International Paper, Sealed Air Corp., and many others have certified labs.
You are correct about pallets. You can buy them for $4, $40, $140 or more. Yes, $140 for a pallet is cheap to keep a $20,000 medical device from getting damaged in transit. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net
that's a highly jingoistic attitude! But then I should consider the source...
dave
RK> Could it just be that the trunions are Chineese made?
At least I am not a shameless capitalist. The source is just stating the facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
Rich
NO.. The Chinese, Tiawan ones don't break that you hear of.
I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk. It is the parent company that dictates the quality of materials in the products that they have manufactured over seas.
If the manufacturer cannot build a container as good as the competitions containers then it is a still considered the manufacturers fault.
For about 4 or 5 years now that I know of Delta has had this problem. I would not for a moment blame the shipping company for a majority of the problems. Delta should perhaps pack the product in a container that would survive being shipped over seas like the competition does and this may solve the problem. About a year ago Delta indicated that it was the manufacturing process that was at fault. Maybe not, perhaps substandard packaging.
I dispute your entire position in this thread. To argue that an entire country's output of steel is much inferior to your preferred source is total nonsense. I have no idea why you postulate such an idea, but basically I think you are ignorant and not worthy of an intelligent discourse on the subject.
dave
RK>>that's a highly jingoistic attitude! But then I should
Ok. and the reason why Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney sell $150 steel bolts to Chineese airlines instead of $5 Chineese bolts? Not because they can its because the jets would be falling out of the skies. Tell me where I can get a cheap set of Chineese Chisels or hand plane that can outperform a LN plane or Chisel? I try them. Stanley has been making their stuff in China? Do you want to but their planes? I
Absolutely True. It all comes down to profit and shareholders. In the case of Pentair they are looking to dump Delta/PC and the rest of the tool division because they squeezed everything they could out of the company. Last quarter they got single digit growth and jack on the profit margins on the Tool division. They are looking to move into the higher margin water treatment sector.
Rich
the issue is more of "price point" than it is the country of manufacturer!
dave
RK>>I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk.
I doubt they buy much steel because up to 6 months ago there was a 25% tariff that China put in place to counter Bush's Steel tariffs. They buy tons and tons of scap metal.
Rich
Back when Japanese products being brought into this country were still mostly cheap junk, I spent some time in Japan. The products they had there were every bit as good as anyone's, a lot of it better than most. The American market did not see that though as importers were only bringing in the cheap stuff. I would be willing to bet that there are really good Chinese products to be had. What we see here is not so much representative of the state of Chinese manufacturing so much as the state of American importers.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.