I'll post pics and specs on my new shop once I have it all setup, I am
moving into a 1,500 sq ft barn and getting a few new tools.
My landlord (the farmer) added some additional electrical for me.
Hehad an electrician put in a 220 circuit and run some metal conduit
out to where I wanted the 220 plug and put it in a metal jbox. He also
ran two wires for an aditional 110 circuit to the same jbox all inside
metal conduit. I will pull the 110 out and route it to where I want
the extra juice.
I do lots of home electrical and can follow the diagrams well and know
some of the codes, etc. I have always used romex or armorcable. I want
to come out of this steel jbox with some armor cable to a 4 gang
outlet, then out to a 1/2 switched outlet and then another switched
outlet. I am familar with how all that is done but have the following
Do I attach the ground wire in the armor cable to the jbox? Once I go
out of one of the switches I will use romex overhead and I want to be
sure everything is grounded correctly. I guess the metal conduit and
boxes are ground enough to just run the two wire 110 but when I come
out to armor cable and romex I want to be sure I am grounded no?
Hoping I don't burn the place down or lectracute mysef. The farmer
wouldn't be happy.
As far as I know you need the safety ground wire to be continuous throughout
your wiring, from the fuse box to each outlet. The ground wire in each outlet
box connects both to the outlet and to the box itself.
I wouldn't count on the armor to be a ground connector, it's not exactly a
copper conductor. Safety first!
Anyway, if you don't get it inspected by an electrician you might get in legal
trouble from the landlord if there's a problem, even in the future after you
On 9/7/2011 8:27 PM, email@example.com wrote:
It doesn't have to be copper.
The NEC explicitly permits the use of (among other things) the armor of
type AC armored cable to be used as the equipment grounding conductor.
Other acceptable grounding conductors include aluminum wire, EMT, rigid
metal conduit, flexible metal conduit, and flexible metallic tubing.
[2008 NEC, Article 250.118]
Ya, the code is one thing... safety is another. I've seen armored cable where
the armor was no longer connected to the box, just hanging in the air, or
barely attached by rusty screws. In that case a short to ground could blow out
the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.
In some types of installations, such as computer systems or recording studios,
dedicated ground wires are ran to eliminate electrical noise. The equipment
chassis ground is connected to the safety ground wire but not the armor.
Sometimes these outlets are colored orange.
On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:19:04 -0400, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Poor workmanship is poor workmanship - whether metalic sheathed cable
or Romex. ANd to meet code, the RIGHT box connectors are required. In
Canad, the galvanized BX (obsolete now) does NOT meet code. And the
AntiShort is absolutely necessary.
Virtually ALL isolated ground receptacles are orange - and they all
have a green triangle on them. The "U" ground is not connected to the
mounting bracket (hense the "isolated ground" - and the bare safety
ground connects to the box - which also grounds the cover plate if it
is metal - while the ground terminal (green wire by code - sometimes
red wire of NMD3 cable, taped green at both ends) runs DIRECTLY back
to the ground buss on the panel. This pretty well limits a "isolated
ground" circuit to ONE duplex receptacle - or possibly 2 isolated
ground reeptacles in one box.
On 9/8/2011 9:19 PM, email@example.com wrote:
Don't blame the armored cable for that. Blame an incompetent installer.
> In that case a short to ground could blow out
> the rusty connection and leave the ground hot.
Probably not before tripping the breaker...
"Look at me" syndrome or just losing it?
Read what he stated again and stop trying to disagree regardless of what
Is this another case where the hot wire can feed current into a box and it
doesn't return to the source "vapour currents" but, it can still trip the
Perhaps this is another one of your imaginary current circuits, like the
bathroom fan circuit, where the current fills up the device before it
continues to the rest of the circuit?
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
Don't blame the armored cable for that. Blame an incompetent installer.
My point was that people don't care if they damage the armor because they think
it serves no electrical purpose. They wouldn't react the same to seeing the
wires hanging out! And it's easier to disconnect the armor than the ground wire.
Yup, and they would then flip the breaker back on, and with the armor blown out,
would energize the chassis with 120v.
And *my* point is that people who know what they're doing understand
what the armor is for; it's only people who are not familiar with the
Code who think the armor serves no electrical purpose...
Don't blame the armor for that either. Blame an ass who flips a tripped
breaker back on without finding out why it tripped first.
================Those points are moot.
99.6% of the users of armoured cable are non-electrically trained
people, and not "know what they are doing" though.
Even electricians, as knowledgeable as they think they are, put
breakers back on to find out why they tripped. That is a basic
troubleshooting technique to start with, by almost all people. When it
doesn't trip again we shrug and walk away, wondering.
You're assuming most people have the knowledge of electricians... the opposite
is true. I once watched a guy wiring his barn with some industrial wire he
bought. I told him he couldn't use the 'blue' wires because they were not in
code, and he told me "It's my barn I'll wire it any way I want!" Pity the
electrician who goes there later to fix it! I should have reported the idiot.
On 9/12/2011 10:34 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
To the contrary, I assume that most people do *not* have that knowledge,
specifically including *you*.
You were wrong.
The Code specifies that neutral must be white or gray; ground must be
bare, green or green with a yellow stripe; and that those colors can be
used for no other purposes. It makes no mention whatsoever of blue,
black, red, orange, or any other colors, with respect to residential
wiring. Unless he was using blue wire for ground or neutral, it's
Why? Any electrician should be able to figure out that a blue wire is hot.
I should have told you I only used the blue color as an example, he was using a
multi colored wire bundle in a totally haphazard fashion, connecting blues to
greens to oranges... whatever was convenient, and changing color mid-run is a
code violation as far as I know. I don't think he had any white wires in what I
I didn't say he used it for hot, you jumped to an incorrect conclusion.
Unless it's ground.
I'd say you are... :)
Are you an electrician by the way?
First, no matter what color is used, a professional or technical
person should always test. There are always someone that wires
something in with a wire they have.
And if you want to bet your life on another persons good or bad day
then simply take care, you live on the edge.
On 9/14/2011 7:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
I have no reason to learn any more about the code then I know now. I don't do
much elec. wiring other than in my own house, and I know enough for that.
Anyway, I always take the safer route, and would look up anything I would need
to know. Most of what I do know about code is what I got from the company
electricians, who inspected any work I needed to do to keep the communications
For now, lets just kill this useless thread and try to get along! This is after
all a wood shop, not a utility room!
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