I fail to see why a business can't set a policy and folks either abide
by it and are customers or they don't and avoid said business. It's
free enterprise, last time I checked. Some businesses don't even give
refunds. They are required to state that prominently, and if you find
that off-putting, shop somewhere else. But there is no need to make a
scene at the place of business.
There is a major pet store in our area that doesn't take Visa. I can
choose to either pay cash, write a check, or avoid the store. I don't
think it is my prerogative to berate the store for their policy. If it
works for them, more power to them. IF it doesn't, then they will
change it when they see the negative impact that it has on their bottom
line. No one put a gun to my head and said that I must shop there.
Dave Mundt wrote:
Renata has as much right to rant about a lumberyard's new policy as you
do to rant about Renata's rant.
I think Renata's rant was more on topic and contained useful information
for quite a few people, but sometimes that's not the yardstick. However,
I think Renata was right to rant and ranted rightly, while you have the
right to wrongly rant and ranted wrong. But not long.
I see nothing off topic in my post about business practices, Dan. You
are stretching a bit to say that I'm not on topic, in my opinion,
worthless to you as that may be.
I stick by every word in my previous post. You are free to argue the
merits of the case...
So far you have offered nothing "on topic" about business practices.
So who is "off topic" here, Dan? :)
No problem with that, and you have every right to set your own policies.
I, for one, don't like the policy, and that is my right, and I will
express my displeasure with my wallet.
What I think people are objecting to in this thread is your treatment of
a past/current/future/potential/whatever customer in a public forum.
Frankly, your attitude sucks. But again, that is your right. I see it as
how I might be treated if I ever did choose to do business with your
company, and again, I will express my displeasure of that with my wallet.
LV is growing, because they know how to treat a customer, big or small,
and they go out their way to make customers want to come back. I even
take my dog into their store, and they treat her better than some stores
treat their paying customers.
I have spent several thousand dollars at LV (and yes, I have even bought
some of that project wood you list), and I have no doubt that I will be
spending several thousand more over time. Even though I have
occasionally (rarely) paid more at LV than I would have elsewhere, I
have never once felt like I was being ripped off by them. I put a value
on customer service, and LV's customer service is second to none.
Good luck with your business, but I think you have done some major
damage here today.
Au contraire - I bought a few hundred dollars (shipping was $70,
dion't recall order amt), mmm, a couple years ago. Guess you don't
keep records back that far.
I've recommended your company many times to folks here who need a
based on the good service I received (in the past).
So, your little diatrabe was quite the surprise.
On 18 Dec 2003 06:16:30 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org (Rob Pelc) wrote:
Potential retention of customers might have been to continue to
service existing customers and limit new customers to larger orders.
I think Rob did himself a secondary disservice by the tone of his
reply to Renata. Unemotional facts would have sufficed (perhaps with
an mildly emotional plea at the end) for people to understand your
situation better. HMMV
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
One of the nice things about e-mail and electronic communications is
that it is immediate and quick. One of the really bad things about e-
mail and electronic communications is that it is immediate and quick.
The e-mail from Advantage Lumber bears the marks of something
typed in haste and anger (I will avoid remarks about banging fingers
flying over the keyboard, spittle flying). That is almost OK if you are
having a political discussion with someone far away and emotions get the
better of you -- it is not a really good idea if you are the owner of a
company that does business with people like those you are berating. I
suspect that someone taking a little more time than immediately flying
into an electronic rage would have stepped back and reconsidered what
was about to be made public to the world.
Then again, maybe not.
I think that what you may eventually really regret is bashing a customer
publicly...or otherwise. You have forgotten the basic rule of retail: the
customer may not always be right, but he (or she) is always the customer. And
without customers, a retail business is dead.
First, self-employment is irrelevant. All companies need to make a profit.
Second, customers are not required to agree with your opinions on anything.
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Well, he was suggesting combining of orders to reach $500: I would guess that
the customer he bashed is far less likely to seek such a solution now. She may
never have been interested, but the possibility existed and has been weakened
by his response.
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
email@example.com (Rob Pelc) wrote in message
Too late, you do come off as an "arogant ass". Your website is your
link to the public. It should have been updated prior to you making
this change. Hopefully soon, the web will be regulated and companies
will have abide with what they tell or don't tell the customer just as
they would if it was a print ad. There have already been a number of
lower court rulings forcing companies to comply with what their web
But your right, it's your business and you can do whatever you want
but I think Renata is completly justified in her response.
Hope that bit of "kicking the slats out of your crib" made you feel better
cause you just lost some customers for being such an arrogant ass (your
The small mail orders helped you grow and were the "bread and butter" of
your business as I recall you stating once and now you can't make any money
on them? Give us a break.
With that attitude you will soon be out of business and by your own doing -
not the economy. Get in your truck and go visit Lee Valley in Ottawa and
ask to speak to Rob or anyone working the counter. They will teach you all
you need to know about customer service in about 10 seconds flat. It's
called attitude and caring about the customer - not bashing and screwing
The post was not about bashing your business - it was about your new policy
I'll find my wood elsewhere. One small order gone...next.
Bash: To engage in harsh, accusatory, threatening criticism.
I wasn't "bashing" your company and it's too bad you're so sensitive
(?) as to feel the need to "bash" one of your former customers and
former supporters on this forum. As I stated (both on the phone w/you
and in my article here), I never received your email (even went back
and checked to see if it inadvertantly got mixed in w/trashed spam -
Your tone in this response is unwarranted and IMHO adds to the
increasingly negative view you're acquiring. Perhaps a dose of
maturity is in order. (actually, I really don't know how to
characterize what's in order, just that something is - I was rather
surprised by your personal attack here).
As I stated, it's understandable that business has to adapt, but your
flippant dismissal of small orders, both on the phone yesterday and in
this response is annoying because I'd guess those orders contributed
in no small way to get you where you are today. Your business
details are irrelevant to me, but your attitude toward your "valued"
Attitude - that's the key issue here. Not business decisions.
And, I was hardly ordering a splinter ($12) - my order was probably in
the range of $200. Just not worth it any more, huh? Now you can run
with the big boys...
I'll pass on the business venture opportunity - I have my own
interests and running a lumber company longer than I would need to
take advantage of the owner's discount, isn't one of them.
Wow, now compare your response (again - not the business decision) to
the attitude Lee Valley takes. Admittedly, they seem to go to an
exteme at times to satisfy the customer (small example: I felt guilty
when they credited return shipping on something they were not at fault
with; but they stated that was their policy). You could go a long way
towards civility and appreciation and not come close to their extreme
valuation of the customer.
On 17 Dec 2003 19:31:30 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org (Rob Pelc) wrote:
I also failed to see where you were "bashing" Advantage Lumber,
but more or less informing people of the new policy (which at the time
was not general knowledge nor available from the company web site) and
lamenting the need to find a new supplier.
As far as Advantage not raising prices in 5 years, I am somewhat
amazed that they can do that given the commodity nature of wood, with
wild variations in prices -- both up and down. Now, not raising
shipping and handling prices, I can see that as a business decision to
not pass on some price increases to customers, but I suspect that modest
rises in those prices would be understood by customers given the reality
of the rises in actual shipping costs.
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