Need a Cheap Nailer For Toe-Nailing

Have you tried a hammer?

On 7 Dec 2005 19:40:57 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com quickly quoth:

Jay, what wood are length of brad are you shooting into/with? If it's not Lignum Vitae, perhaps your Senco is toast or you have an air feed problem.

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On 7 Dec 2005 19:47:48 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com quickly quoth:

I don't toenail, I screw SPF framing members together when possible.

Most guns want 90psi max, too, so I doubt it's your pressure. Check your volume to the gun, though. Is it worse with rapid-fire? That would indicate a feed volume problem. Have you rebuilt the Senco yet? Pulling it down and cleaning it can make a big difference in an air tool. Sometimes pieces of debris (specifically teflon tape) get in the inlet and ruin performance. (Gummed vanes in rotary tools cause the same performance hit.)

Could it be your method? Watch your hand while you hit the trigger for a toenailing shot. If it moves, try holding it perfectly still. This is especially critical with longer nails. What length are you shooting? It's possible that the gun you're using isn't up to the task for that length nail and the type of wood you're using.

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On 7 Dec 2005 20:01:09 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com quickly quoth:

Jay, if you simply must use toenailing, try a shorter brad and a few more brads per project. Also think about switching to pocket screws instead, if your project wood thickness could support it.

If you're concerned with the compressor, add a 5-gallon storage tank near the nailer. Did you buy the PC0947 kit? That noisy little bastid of a 1hp compressor should easily handle a nailer at full speed.

One last question: Have you tried any other brands of nails? Perhaps one with a sharper tip would work better. If you have a belt sander, you can see if a sharper tip on a strip of existing nails helps. I use one to pare down my 1-1/4" brads for my 1-3/16" gun. (Newbie mistake, last minute purchase; luckily only a 1k box. :)

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Honestly, I have never heard anything like that while I am in Home Depot, and I visit Home Depot very frequent -- and not always in the Tools Department :)

Jay Chan

Thanks for everyone who has replied.

Seem like the small air compressor is not the one that causes me trouble when I try to toe-nail because 120 PSI should be enough.

I don't remember what size nails that I used. I believe it is one size above the shortest one. I will check it out when I get back home, and I will try toe-nailing with the shortest nails; unfortunately, I have a feeling that this is not practical because the shortest nails will not have enough holding power to hold the horizontal and vertical pieces together.

I probably want to focus back on the nailer itself, and I will check if the telfon tape is blocking the air flow or not. The nailer is very clean because I have not had enough chance to use it a lot. Therefore, I doubt that there will be something blocking the air flow.

Let me ask everyone who has Senco FinishPro-18 a question: Let's say you put 1.25" 18-gauge nails in the nailer, and adjust the depth-of-drive to as deep as possible. And then you shoot one nail onto a piece of softwood (pine), such as a 2x4. How deep is the nail below the surface of the wood? When I tried this last night, the nail is something like 1/16" below the surface. I want to hear how other people experience are. Thanks.

Jay Chan

No luck with using the shortest nails. I tried toe-nailing using 1" nails on a 2x4. The result was exactly the same as when I use 1.25" nails, meaning that the nail head sticks out by 1/16".

By the way, the nails are Senco nails. I suppose their nails must work well with their own nailers.

Nailing the same 1" nails straight on a piece of wood can counter-sink the nail down to 1/8". Seem like there is something wrong with shooting a nail at an angle that cause the nail not be able to penetrate into the wood completely.

Seem like the suggestion of using pocket screws is becoming more and more like a much better idea than trying to toe nail. Or I need to make some 90-degree brace-angles and use it with clamps to align two pieces of woods together. Anyway, the idea of toe nailing seems to be fading away fast -- at least for me.

Jay Chan

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

I was recently nailing quarter round at an angle into subflooring below. The wood was 3/4 birch which was a hard wood, using campbell hausfield 2 inch 18 ga nailer and a harbor freight 2 1/2" 16 ga finish nailer, using a tankless craftsman compressor at 100 psi and had no trouble at all with nailing it with proper countersink. Sounds like something is wrong with your setup. Could you borrow a compressor or go back to the store from which you bought it and ask them. I often have trouble with too much depth not too little.

MBR

Dollars to donuts that "something", with your particular tool, is the angle of the head of the nail gun when toenailing.

IOW, not being in full contact with the surface of the material being nailed, the extra distance the brad must travel is just enough to keep it from penetrating to the desired depth.

IME, most _brad_ nailers will not toe-nail consistently. Neither of mine will (Delta and HF), I would suspect that with those that will, it is more or less luck of the draw.

The problem is that the nose piece of the gun isn't held against the wood when nailing at an angle. It is always a little ways away. I have never had much luck with it. If you keep the angle very shallow so the gun is as perpendicular to the wood as posible, it may work. If there is a rubber bumper on the nose of the gun, remove it. That will allow you to get closer.

But nailing a quarter round is different from toe-nailing. Yes, I have nailed quarter round before in a finishing-a-basement project; I know how this is being done. When I nail a quarter round, I always can maintain the contact between the nailer head and the wood surface. But this is not so with toe-nailing. When I toe-nailing, the angle of toe-nailing and the nailer head assembly prevent me from having a good contact. There is always a gap. And I believe this is the problem.

Jay Chan

I think you are right. The nailer head cannot maintain a good contact with the wood surface when I use the brad nailer for toe-nailing. And this probably creates the problem.

If brad nailers are not appropriate for toe-nailing, sound like I should try my finish-nailer for toe-nailing to see if it works better. I didn't think of using finish-nailer for toe-nailing because finish nails may be too long for toe-nailing. I may try the shortest finish nails to see if they work better than the brad nails. If finish nailer doesn't work well either, I will have to use pocket screws.

Jay Chan

If the time and effort of doing pocket screws is acceptable you cpould also consider an old-style nailer, AKA hammer.

You are quite right. I tried toe-nailing with a Senco finish nailer (15-gauge), and the result is exactly the same as when I used a Senco brad nailer (18 gauge). This problem must have to do with the gap between the nailer head and the wood surface when I need to tilt the nailer for toe-nailing. Oh well... This means I need to find a cheap nailer that I can remove the safety assembly from the nailer head to reduce the gap, and use it just for toe-nailing. And this brings me back to my original question of this thread: Where can I get a cheap nailer that can do well with toe-nailing?

Jay Chan

CW wrote:

I have ordered and received a finishing nailer from Harbor Freight. It is called "16 GAUGE HEAVY DUTY BRAD TACKER":

The only reservation is that it doesn't have anyway to adjust the depth of the counter-sink, other than by changing the angle of the nailer head against the wood as mentioned above. This works for toe nailing on two pieces of soft woods (4x4). I don't know if it will still work OK if I toe-nail two pieces of hard woods. We will see.

Jay Chan

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote: