I'm considering building a deck at my house in spain. The climate is hot/arid (up to 40 C, about 110 F) during the summer and a short cold winter with occasional snow, maybe down to -10. The material I'll use will be pressure treated pine, as alternatives such as redwood are not available. The deck will be in direct sunlight from the east and south, it's shaded by the house to the west.
The size of the deck will be about 5m x 4.5m (18' x 12') and will have to support about 1 ton: people, furniture etc. but no tub or other localised "heavy spots". I don't need a barbeque area.
My main concern is the durability of the materials used, primarily because of the high daytime temperatures and UV exposure. Given people's experience of decking in similar environments, such as arizona or NM, is this sensible, or would I be better off going for a concrete patio - which seems to be the more popular alternative with my neighbours?
Your views and experiences would be very welcome. Pete
Pete, I live in New Zealand, in the northern part. We don't get the kind of frosts here, but I dare say our sun is probably stronger, UV wise, than anything you'll get in Spain. One thing I can tell you for sure: people avoid building pine decks like the plague, except maybe for absolutely poor people or those who just don't know any better. It weathers too much, and it doesn't stay stable when it's out in the weather like that. At the very least you'll need to put lots of oil based stain on it, or similar.
If that was me, and pine was really all that was available, I think I'd go for concrete and put terracotta or slate on it. 22 square meteres, hell that's 2.2 cubes of concrete at 4 inches (and you only need 3, max, and one steel mat unless you want to park the range rover on it) - cheaper than buying the timber, probably.
I would certainly go with the wood. I live in Houston and while the temp des not regularily hit 110F in the summer, 100+F is normal. I seriousely doubt a few more degrees will make a critical difference.
If exposed to direct sunlight wood will fade
A concrete patio ecposed to direct sunlight is going to absorbe and radiate heat perhaps all night long and would be too hot to stand on bare footed in the summer.
There is a product we use here in New Mexico called Trex. It is a composite of wood and platics that bears up in our high heat and UV areas. My deck is concrete and I do not worry about heat retention as we have extremely low humidity so the temperature drops very quickly at night. Also, during the day, it is much too hot to sit out in sum without shade. In the shade the concrete is cool.
See is you can locate a supplier of Trex or similar product. What are your neighbors using on their decks?
Don't they have nice cedar in Spain? Or is Spanish Cedar only that in name only?
Unless you just really want a wooden deck, they've got no real advantages over patios- especially when it comes to maintenance. If you don't like the concrete option, loose laid bricks or pavers look nice and last indefinately in most conditions. A quick search one Google should return any number of article on how to install them, if you don't already know, and depending on how much work you're willing to do yourself, they can be very inexpensive.
I put in mine this last weekend (9' x 13') and the whole deal cost $15
gasoline. To get it that cheap was a ton of work- I removed a
100-yr old chimney one brick at a time with a brick set and a hammer, carefully removing the mortar as I went and took it home. The bricks were my payment for the work- which was a fair deal, as "antique" pavers go for a premium in most markets. Then excavated the area for the patio with a shovel, paid $15 for a yard of gravel and a ton of sand, shoveled all that stuff into the excavation manually, screeted the sand and laid the bricks. Took about 3 long days for the brick reclamation and one and a half for the patio, but it would have cost me at least a couple grand to have someone else do it. Figure about twice as much time for the size you've got in mind- unless you have a hard-working helper.
Concrete will cost whatever it costs- there isn't much room for dickering there, and it's generally not a do-it-yourself job like a deck or paver patio is for most people. Making the forms is easy, but finishing the poured slab is an art most folks (including myself) are not very adept at, and a big hunk of concrete is not easy to remove if you're not happy with the results. The only real concern with the material is that it is bland, and may crack if it is not installed correctly- make sure you check out the contractor beforehand, as some are much better than others, and price is not always a good indicator with concrete.
Having lived in southern Arizona for 40 years and lived with both, I'll share some hands on experience. A wood deck is cooler in the summer as Leon says but it needs a lot of maintenance. No finish, surface film or oil, lasted more than 1 year due to the intense UV. In the summer the kids were always playing on it and using the water hose. The constant wet vs. hyper-dry cycles caused the pine to deteriorate in just a few years. The underside was the perfect home for many snakes, spiders, and scorpions.
Concrete on the other hand needs almost zero maintenance, an occasional blast with the water hose does just fine. It also has no gaps to catch and hold debris. Yes, it will get damn hot in the direct summer sun (160+ degrees depending on its' color) but it cools rapidly when flooded with water. If your climate is humid, like Houston, this will be less effective than in an arid climate. Concrete can be texturized to imitate rock or brick if you don't like the normal plain surface. I've seen concrete patios which are 30+ years old that look like they were poured a few years ago.
Whichever way you decide to go, remember that shade is your friend. Trees, awnings, overhead trellis, or anything that blocks the sun will increase your enjoyment of your patio/deck.
I'm near Houston, TX, and have built a couple of wood decks. I used PT wood (pine), firmly secured at every joist with ring shank nails. I made sure when I nailed the boards that I put the cup (potential/probable problems) DOWN. I power wash as necessary to remove the inevitable mildew and treat with Thompson's and/or an equivalent.
With that kind of installation and treatment I've found a deck can be good looking after quite a few years, 10-15, at least.
The one I have now is about 500 sq. ft. over my pond/lake (2+ acres, so which do I call it?) and after 7 years of above care it still looks good.
is a difference between a pond and a lake and it grows primarily out of the source of creation, as with all living things - yes I said living, but we'll get to that. A lake was made by God; a pond is always man made. As such you might expect ponds, each being made by different men, to look a lot different from one to another and to be stocked with different varieties of plant and animal life from pond to pond, and you'd be right.
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and ponds are permanently wet year round. The main difference between a lake and a pond is the size. A lake is usually defined as a body of water large enough to have at least one wind-swept beach; ponds usually are not large enough for winds to blow across the water and create waves to wash away the plants that may be trying to take root. A lake is too deep for rooted plants to grow except near the shore.
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term "lake" or "pond" as part of a waterbody name is arbitrary and not based on any specific naming convention. In general, lakes tend to be larger and/or deeper than ponds, but numerous examples exist of "ponds" that are larger and deeper than "lakes."
On 6/6/2006 10:50 PM Edwin Pawlowski mumbled something about the following:
Wow, according to this one, we have several LARGE ponds. Just to name a few off the top of my head
Lake Mead (250 sq miles) Lake Mohave (almost 200 sq miles) Lake Sidney Lanier (60 sq miles) Bogue Homa Lake (1200 acres, although it originally didn't have a damn, it was much smaller before).
About 460 other Army Corp of Engineers lakes plus many others.
and quite a few lakes that aren't much larger than a mud puddle (that is, if you believe in a Dog).
... my apologies for getting the thread off subject re: lakes/ponds, so I'll re-answer the originally posted question in case my first attempt got lost in the shuffle -- bear with me while I repeat. :-)
I have found PT pine deck boards securely fastened to a solid water contact PT pine sub-structure to be quite durable, even in our Houston- area hot, humid climate. I do have to pressure wash it periodically because of mildew and then re-treat with a water sealer.
With that treatment and after 7 years it still looks good.
Since we are getting back on topic. there was mention about a patio instead of a deck. That would be my first choice. Much less maintenance, no chance of rodents taking up residence under a low deck. Yes, you do have the heat sink effect in a hot and sunny climate, but that is the only down side I can think of.
Yes, now I've seen the responses to my question, I'm tending towards a mixed approach.
Originally I wanted decking rather than stone/concrete as I expected this would be cooler (less heat) and would also add more texture and a more "organic" feel to the rather desolate area to the front of the house - if that doesn't sound too pretentious.
The comment about snakes & scorpions made me think, especialy as the deck would be close to the entrance. Last time I was at the house I found a baby scorpion inside and I know there are snakes in the area.
What I'll probably end up doing is laying a patio with a pergola over the top and a few climbing plants trained over it to provide shade. I can still keep most of the organic look with this and some wooden railings around the perimeter.
Finally, sorry John but I've never been to Salamanca so I doubt that I've met your friend.
thanks for the useful and constructive comments Pete
Even better for weather resistance then, isn't it? I guess I was wondering why there wasn't anything but PT pine around, especially with the relative proximity of Africa (relative compared to the US, that is)
Then again, I know very little about Spain- other than it looks like a nice place to live.
Should look great- opt for brick or stone, and it'll give you an organic look, especially if you find some that have been tumbled a bit and have some variation in color and size. Harder to lay than standardized pavers, but nicer to look at in the end. Concrete can always be painted as well, though I wouldn't trust it to hold up for the long term.
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