There are tree's like that in La Jolla, Calif. To the naked eye people mistake them for scrub pine due to their small stature, but some wise person recognized them for what they are not too awful long ago, and now they are protected. The only spot, I think, in NA
On 01/06/2016 4:43 PM, OFWW wrote: ...
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I'd venture _most_ didn't actually go through two fully dormant cycles and wouldn't show up a second ring therefore but it would be interesting to do a core sample, indeed...
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I'd like to know what those are; the quaking aspen are certainly NA, Pando is in south-central UT, not far from Fishlake NF...
fyi you are disagreeing with what dendrochronologists have determined by careful analysis
Normally I wouldn't have thought so either, but we had a short hot winter followed by some quick freezes, all the trees that were budding and growing fruit, lost all their fruit an some leaves, then a mild winter for a couple weeks, and then a repeat of the cycle. I was thinking that the poor trees and plants must be getting confused because or the strange weather sequences.
I had a great laugh through it all as the weather men and new people were really hamming up the heat wave, and talking about the seriousness of GW, and after a couple weeks of that going on the temp dropped to below freezing then hovered down low and made them all look a bit skittish for a while.
ROTFLOL!! You owe me a new keyboard, just spit out my coffee.
Not the ones I was thinking of in Torrey Pines, Calif.
Now I know I read some articles about the find and as I recall the small tree, which was like a natural Japanese trained stunted tree, that grew from ancient root systems not seeds.
Can't seem to find any info on it at the moment. grrrrr.
Show me the research that says that.
That's an el Nino cycle for ya'...
We've been thru the 5-6 years of severe (Cat IV on national drought monitor like CA that you hear about; nobody much cares about "flyover country") until the worm turned suddenly about first of June and have been (by our standards, anyways, wet since). Included w/ the pattern is the jet stream pattern that includes blocking the extreme Canadian cold from the northern midwest/northeast...
They've been touting how this year is the "strongest since the '80s!!!!" not bothering to mention they've only had tracking data from roughly that time which is only 30 years; absolutely nothing in terms of overall climate. Meanwhile, there are records that the Peruvian fishermen knew of it in early 17th century and undoubtedly actually much earlier than that so it's certainly nothing new; we just now are beginning to understand how it affects global weather patterns.
There's a NOAA fella' in the Dodge City office finishing up his doctoral dissertation who works the night shift and on occasion will write in some depth on his work in the area in the "behind the scene" internal discussion distributed as part of the workings behind the daily forecast. Quite interesting how it's all so intertwined.
My hypothesis is that if one had the data one could show that in fact the "Dirty 30's" dustbowl was tied in with a strong La Nina (the opposite of the El Nino) which is associated with the strong jet stream buckle to the north which shunts all the rain-producing t-storm producing systems to the east of the western High Plains leaving us with the similar situation we've just been through. IOW, imo there's "nothing new under the sun"; we're just not a long-lived enough species to be able to see the big picture in short term patterns and have fallen into the trap of thinking we're more important than we are.
Exactly! Concerning not enough data to make a reasonable assumption about the long term weather patterns.
This we do know, the weather is unpredictable and has been changing for centuries.
Now that computers are every where every one is an expert on the weather using the vast amount of data that has only recently become available to everyone. I highly suspect that in 200 years future generations will look at the global warming crisis somewhat like the Salem Witch trials.
Had we had access to computers and weather data 60 years ago like we have in the last 30 or so years I'm certain that we would be looking at the weather much differently. Thank goodness we did what we did to curb global cooling in the 70's and 80's so that we would not all freeze. There simply is not enough data to make anything close to accurate assumptions about recent history weather patterns.
I find it ironic that in general we did not have these global weather problems until we felt compelled to do something about them. Here is where you should follow the money to see how conclusions have been propped up.
There is just way too much to take into consideration to make any assumption that anything we change can change the weather.
Is the weather getting warmer, probably. Is that a bad thing? Perhaps the earth's weather is adjusting naturally to provide more or longer growing seasons to supply food for the growing population. If we were actually able to cool things down and shorten the growing seasons, would we be able to grow enough food to feed the planet?
In reality, _IN TEMPERATE ZONES_, the likelihood is that there may be an additional ring or two now and then as OFWW notes may have occurred in his region owing to an indication or dormancy and renewed growth again more than once during the calendar year from an aberration from normal weather patterns of sufficient magnitude and duration as to actually cause the growth pattern to mimic another year. Similarly, particularly in drier climates it's possible that a period of dormancy is caused by drought that if relieved during the normal growing season may cause another growth ring to be present that might otherwise not be.
It's also possible for there to have been an extended dormancy giving rise to a missing ring for a given year; I'd posit that for such to have been true for a period of decades is just not likely to be so albeit there's a possibility that like in tropical regions the size of the ring may be so small as to be essentially indetectable. I'd expect that few specimens will survive such an instance if it were to have occurred at which point it's pretty clear the next ring will span infinity.
Actual dating is done via statistical averaging of many samples and normalized against alternative references to become absolute. There are several established series internationally recognized that a given specimen from an area can be compared against for such dating.
But, the possibility of a time span of "decades" between growth rings of any of the common trees we in rec.woodworking would even know existed and growing in NA or any similar temperate climate is essentially zero.
I think you both are dead on in this. When I was a kid I read a lot of those old English classic novels, Like Heidi and her Grandpa, Daniel Defoe's stuff, the books of the various countries and Ice skating on the Danube and the like, all icy cold, etc. And then with all the talk on GW, people mentioned the various ice ages, and in the 14-1600'a there was a mini ice age, or was it 1200-?? Can't remember at the moment, but those icy stories were tied in with the tale end of the last mini ice age. Millions died not just from the freezing cold, but the lack of food. Seems that right before that there was a GW period which was so warm that food was growing where it wouldn't before, and the oceans were calm because of it, and allowed the Phoenicians to travel to the US in their reed boats, as well as the Vikings in their ships. Populations spread and grew because of it all, but when the mini ice age hit it was major misery for most everyone and brought things to a screaming halt. Lack of food, lack of livable land and so on.
So in a way those books were recordings of the weather pattern and cycle and if we all paid attention to history we wouldn't be crying like Chicken Little.
or like our illustrious leader...
would not consider sequoia to be common it is the only hexaploid tree it is the tallest tree
much prefer the dendrochronologist analysis over yours or rec.woodworking
The water goes ... UP???
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Again, show me any reference that refutes the above.
As for common, I'd say sequoia are essentially "a dime a dozen" in their range.
On 01/08/2016 1:49 PM, dpb wrote: ...
And, they're (coastal redwood) the only hexaploid _conifer_, _NOT_ the only hexaploid tree. While most hexaploid plants are grasses, etc., rather than woody plants, there are some deciduous trees which are hexaploid as well.
Or, more specifically, even a single paper that supports the claim of "decades" (I'd even take several years) between growth rings of any tree in any temperate climate.
Greg Guarino wrote in news:n6p14q$bsd$1@dont- email.me:
That's why outhouses are so common in Australia even though the rest of the world has had indoor plumbing for decades.
Most places on the earth suck, Australia blows.
Puckdropper
The water when it drains spins in the opposite direction. Toilers designed for here would not flush properly there.
The line of demarcation is the equator.
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