For my exterior door frame project....
I will be butting together two lengths of sapele/mahog.
The individual pieces are about 22mm x 140mm and 1040cm long...and joining
them on the long edges to make 260mm wide panels.
Should I buy a jointing router bit or can I get away with using biscuits.
Once they are joined i will be fielding them.
NOT true at all. This seems to be a widely quoted myth parroted
around here amongst the literati.
One minute of research will get EMPIRICAL research to show
You can get started here:
But please don't stop there. There is a lot of easily obtained
information about the strength of a biscuit joint when >>properly
executed for the right type of joining<<.
Note that method, project design and understanding of the joints made
by this machine are important when maximizing the use of it, just as
it is with any other machine.
I think this stuff started when couple of these limp assed woodworking
for idiots magazines (including an op-ed piece by Rockler that
compared it to the Dowel Max) tested the biscuit joiner to see if it
was the do all, end all device for every single application.
Obviously it is not, nor is any other joining machine.
But to dismiss it out of hand as being useless is absurd.
I disagree. I did the same test as in figure 2. Used two large, (#20?) PC
biscuits, not three. pieces were 2X4, about 15' long. Set 48 hours with
Titebone #2. I was surprised how easily they (biscuits) broke, 1/2 in each
piece of 2x4. Did not use a scale to measure force. Nothing failed but the
biscuits. I asked the question about the difference between Lamello and PC
here about a year ago. That was not answered, but got all kinds of reasons
it failed. None applicable. After that, biscuits were for alignment, the
added strength was secondary.
I still would like to know if there is a diff between Lamello and PC
I am not sure how your test disproved the data when your test was not
the same (2 vs three busuits) and you did not do a comparison with a
non-biscuit joint to compare amount of pressure required to break the
Of course none of that would change the fact that you were surprised
at how easy the joint broke, but just pointing out that it was not
"the same" test and not neccesarily conclusive.
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
Besides that with a 15-foot moment arm he could have broken _any_
rigid joint between 2 2x4s joined 90 degrees without much effort.
The biscuits broke, he said. If it had been a mortise and tenon the
tenon would have broken. "Stronger than a butt joint" doesn't mean
True, my test was NOT controlled, but a M&T joint would not be broken by
hand. The parts were 15 inches, my error. The first initial movement of
the joint is to pull the fibers apart, not to bend them. Tyr pulling a 1/8
I don't see an answer to difference between Lamello and PC biscuits.
Absolutely agree! ... to suggest that properly applied biscuit joinery adds
no strength whatsoever to the joint under question defies reason, logic,
personal practical experience, and more than one published testing.
There seems to be a proliferation of journalist woodworkers spouting these
"truisms" that are more former than latter.
I'll say it again: You gotta love the "wired world" ... the more "facts"
available from which to draw wrong conclusions, the more wrong conclusions
there are available as "facts".
;~), boy that Domino saved me lot's of time on my last job. I think I put
in about 28 loose tennons on just the legs on the walnut desk. Throw in
probably 54 for the top and shelves for aligning the pieces of wood and
another 28 for the shelf skirts. Biscuits would have worked on the top and
shelf panels but it would have been over 100 mortises done on the mortiser
for the shelf and leg skirts. On this job alone the Domino probably saved
me 1 full day of work and that is about 1/3 the cost of the Domino.
Well, Leon, I've never done a mortise in my life and I'm still having to remind
myself that a "loose" tenon is a GOOD thing...
I hear that expression and think "chair doctor needed here"..
Then again, I'm a turner and haven't even MET Jack..
Please remove splinters before emailing
Leon, just out of interest's sake have you tested the strength in a Domino
connection by purposely trying to break a stile connection off a rail? I'm
wondering what kind of strength is inherent in those Domino biscuits or what
kind of resistance was encountered before the stile split off the Domino
Although the machine itself is a spin-off of the plate joiner design, I
would be hard pressed to classsify the Domino "loose tenons" as "biscuits".
Here is the supposed results of a relatively recent (07) "Wood" magazine
"joint strength" test of various "loose tenon" methods:
Mortise and tenon 1,017 pounds (461 kg)
Dowelmax 609 pounds (276 kg)
Beadlock 541 pounds (245 kg)
Domino 464 pounds (210 kg)
Biscuits 187 pounds (85 kg)
Mortise and tenon 2,525 pounds (1,145 kg)
Dowelmax 1,866 pounds (846 kg)
Domino 1,486 pounds (674 kg)
Beadlock 1,170 pounds (530 kg)
Biscuits 766 pounds (347 kg)
That said, while it's interesting, I don't know that I'd trust this
particular rag to be the final word on anythng ...
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