True, my test was NOT controlled, but a M&T joint would not be broken by hand. The parts were 15 inches, my error. The first initial movement of the joint is to pull the fibers apart, not to bend them. Tyr pulling a 1/8 dowel apart.
I don't see an answer to difference between Lamello and PC biscuits.
Shortage of push sticks in that area?
Well, Leon, I've never done a mortise in my life and I'm still having to remind myself that a "loose" tenon is a GOOD thing... I hear that expression and think "chair doctor needed here"..
Then again, I'm a turner and haven't even MET Jack..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Leon, just out of interest's sake have you tested the strength in a Domino connection by purposely trying to break a stile connection off a rail? I'm wondering what kind of strength is inherent in those Domino biscuits or what kind of resistance was encountered before the stile split off the Domino biscuit?
"Upscale" wrote
Although the machine itself is a spin-off of the plate joiner design, I would be hard pressed to classsify the Domino "loose tenons" as "biscuits".
Here is the supposed results of a relatively recent (07) "Wood" magazine "joint strength" test of various "loose tenon" methods:
Shear Test
Mortise and tenon 1,017 pounds (461 kg) Dowelmax 609 pounds (276 kg) Beadlock 541 pounds (245 kg) Domino 464 pounds (210 kg) Biscuits 187 pounds (85 kg)
Pull-apart Test
Mortise and tenon 2,525 pounds (1,145 kg) Dowelmax 1,866 pounds (846 kg) Domino 1,486 pounds (674 kg) Beadlock 1,170 pounds (530 kg) Biscuits 766 pounds (347 kg)
That said, while it's interesting, I don't know that I'd trust this particular rag to be the final word on anythng ...
LOL, They tighten up.
No I have not tested them however, the smallest Domino is 5mm thick, 18mm wide, and 30 mm long. There are 4 larger sizes up to 10mm thick, 23 mm wide, and 50 mm long. All are made of solid Beech wood. Additionally and unlike the single thin thickness biscuits the Domino machine can be set so that the slot is a perfect fit, thick and width wise. This is great for indexing alignment as the machine has multiple ways to index the location of the mortice. The following mortises can be set to be cut a bit wider than the Domino, to ease assembly.
Gotta go along with that... from what I've seen, they're more like an oval-shaped dowel than a biscuit..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Actually a Domino is flat on both ends and on top and bottom only the side edges are round with a radius half the thickness, so the round edges are perfect half circles.
Don't know how you can keep from getting out there and in Dr. Frankenstein's lab and come up with some kind of home built test. With the Domino testing so well against everything we know to use these days in quick joining, I would have to know how it stacks up in my little end of the world in my hands.
I would be thinking, "OK, looks good in the books, looks good on paper. BUT, how does it really stack up in the Leon Field Trials of Death?"
That's the kind of stuff I actually enjoy doing.
Robert
I don't see how they could at all. I am surprised they didn't put the Krieg system in there and call it a "metal rod biscuit" or some other baloney.
SNIP
I think it is important to realize that in some cases these magazines buy these tests, contract these tests, and in other situations probably just buy the copy outright. Mssr. Self would know the protocols on that.
But what gets me, is the way they test the machines. Once again, we are looking for the end all, do all type machine. Where is that machine? With a tip of the hat to the shop bound fellas that do this, I don't really care how well it works in the quiet confines of my shop with all the proper room, clamping equipment, and time I need to get the machine squared away.
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that if you tried out those tools again in the hands of someone that drives up the the job to trim an house and build a couple of laundry cabs or a built in clothes hamper, he will take the Domino first, and the biscuit machine second.
As for strength of joints... great for those who want to exert several hundred pounds of pressure on wood working efforts. How many magazine/ casual/professionals have seen enough failures of any of those systems to be of concern.
I think too for the lowly biscuit, it is important to remember that they only test with one biscuit in the joint. Two biscuits give a tremendous gain in a joint, and unless it is 3/4" material, everyone I know uses two now.
I am not a big proponent of biscuits, but until I can justify the cost of the Domino (quit taking those damn roof repairs, Robert....) the biscuit joiner will stay with me. I will try to remember that I have NEVER had a joint that was joined with biscuits fail.
Who knows - since my joints don't come apart... there may NEVER be a Domino in the future for me. I actually be more interested in the Rotex Super MF 1000 Platinum Stealth Wood Transformer and Satellite Tracking tool. They sell it as a "sander" (yeah - right!) down at WoodCraft.
One day...
Robert
LOL, For me the Domono had the advantage of using tennons with up to 4-5 times the mass of a biscuit and cuts the mortises in a lot smaller spot with no extra slot required as each biscuit slot does. Try using a FF biscuit on the end of a 1" wide piece of wood. ;~)
Actually I did sorta do a small experiment when I first got the Domino. I glued 2 pieces of 3/4" MDF to gether with 2 small 5mm Domino's. The pieces were orientated lake a rail and stile glued side edge to end edge The mortises were side by side a couple of inches apart, not stacked. The surface alignment was perfect and the joint was strong enough that the joint did not fail when trying to seperate the pieces by hand. I suspect with no tennons the 2 pieces would have seperated pretty easily if only glued edge to edge. Biscuits no doubt would have added strength too. IMHO biscuits are still goint to be hard to beat when joining 45 degree mitered corners when you want to have the extra reinforcement near the outer corner.
So where do you live and can I hire u? I would love to find somebody with that work effort and fair prices.
Although I keep my PC biscuits in a zip-locked bag, I'm concerned that over the years they may have absorbed some moisture.
Is there any fast/easy/cheap way of drying them out such as baking in an overn or microwave?
Thanks
Although I keep my PC biscuits in a zip-locked bag, I'm concerned that over the years they may have absorbed some moisture.
Is there any fast/easy/cheap way of drying them out such as baking in an overn or microwave?
Thanks
Do they still fit into the slot? If so, they are OK, if not try putting them in a 200 degree oven for a time.
I live with a lot of humidity, so when I'm using biscuits, I put them in the microwave on "thaw" for a few minutes.. they get noticeably thinner..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.