I bought a 12" Simonds backsaw No. 96 with 14 tpi which needs a jointing and sharpening. The blade is 0.025" thick, but what kind of saw is it? Could be a what... rip tenon or crosscut tenon, carcase? Mitre box?
TIA,
Hard to tell without seeing it. 14tpi is probably crosscut rather rip, which makes it a tenon or carcase saw, rather than dovetail. It's also a bit big for dovetails. Mitre box saws are usually quite deep bladed.
As to the rest, then it depends how you sharpen it and use it. The rest is up to you.
Tage Frid cuts all his saws with a rip tooth, claiming it gives a faster cut all around. He implies (in TFTW I) it is more suitable to dry hardwood, but doesn't make any comparison of the quality of the cuts (seems like crosscutting with a rip profile would give a rougher cut.)
er
It probably would but cutting dovetails is more of a rip cut than a crosscut.
That's very true, but Frid was known to cut a few tenons, and chose to shape the teeth of all his blades that way anyway.
er
Yes it would or might tear the fibers. I can see it though, it would have to be tried, with rip teeth it is the tops oh them that do the cutting so even with minor sized cross cutting it might be cleaner that using the side cutting cross cut teeth, I would have to find that text to get a thorough understanding from 'im. Which book is it? Or is it online?
Thanks Andy, from what I have read or seen in saws for sale online, it can go either way for this kind of work, a Japanese rip dovetailer can have 22 tpi.
BTW, Spear & Jackson just made it to the USA, do you use their saws? Got an opinion?
"Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking", there are two volumes (also available combined), "Joinery" (which is relevant to the discussion), and "Shaping, Veneering, Finishing".
He just kinda tosses it out there, though, with not much more to it than what I've related.
er
Japanese teeth - different shape altogether from Western teeth. At 22tpi they're also rather fine for most timbers. I can only imagine using a saw like that on the very smallest of work, in something like paulownia or lime (linden)
Got a couple of old ones.
They're like any maker - used to be good once, but now the market is for cheap rubbish and so that's what they're having to offer. They might still be making good saws too, but anything you see in a mainstream store will be home repair junk.
Oh you didn't understand then. I meant the saws made for carcase, tenon and dovetail work, not home repair. Take a look: tenon saws:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:54:41 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, Andy Dingley quickly quoth:
You'd be surprised, Andy. My razor saws cut very dense/hard jarrah at an amazingly quick rate, quicker than the minty sharp Disstons.
----- = Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
Yeah? And I have been using a shark mini ryoba to cut/rip lignum vitae wedges for my up and coming plane hammer, does the job swiftly and accurately.
How do you shift the chips ? I've got Japanese saws of that sort of pitch. Although they do cut pretty well on hard, stable timbers they don't let the waste out fast enough to cut quickly. The only stuff I've really found them to be well suited to is timber that's soft (squashy chips) yet also fine-grained and stable. They might be good for ivory or rosewood too, but I don't work much of either.
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:37:18 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, Andy Dingley quickly quoth:
I hadn't noticed any problem so I haven't looked closely. It appears to sweep them out as it cuts, IE, normally.
Which timbers are you describing?
----- = Dain Bramaged...but having lots of fun! =
That's what I meant. Just putting a back on it doesn't make it a decent saw, nor does a brownwood handle make it "professional". Besides which, when did you ever see a "professional" tool that wasn't just a piece of junk dressed up to fool the weekend warriors ?
handles and brass rivets mean a limited life before they work loose and they're hard to tighten afterwards.
Worst of all, "Universal teeth pattern for versatility." or in other words, "Saws for people who don't know the difference"
I don't know if anyone in Sheffield still makes backed rip saws - I think Axminster/Clifton's Victor saws are, but even the Thomas Flinn "Pax" saw (supposedly the best in production today) is this universal cut. I also find that modern Sheffield dovetail saws are too short and too deep. My own is a 1930's Preston and I'd prefer the Canadian Adria pattern if I was buying new.
I bought a Disston "Warranted Superior" panel-sized rip this week. Rusty as anything, but then it was only £1 8-)
I'm a dreadful skinflint at the best of times, but I'd rather spend hours restoring an old saw than buy new.
Paulownia, or (as I'm usually faking it) lime (linden / basswood outside the UK).
I do a fair bit of tiny Japanese work, personal effects and little tansu inner boxes, and my smallest saws are good for this. They clog up if I try to use them on cedars or pines though.
It DOES say "RIVETS" doesn't it?!?!?! Outrageous!
Yes but that could be redone.
Too poor for that... I only wish, but I'd still have a problem with hardness of the steel of both Adria and Lie-Nielson.
That is the way to go. You get RC 60 then.
I agree, and I've done that, but around here, Califoria southern central coast, it is almost impossible to find the good old back saws, on the *bay the decent ones are bidded up too high unless it's a Simonds.
I have "Joinery" by him, it must be in there, thanks. And I scanned the entire
3rd book, still going to make it a full pdf, eventually.HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.