heavy picture frame

I have been asked to make a frame for a stained glass window. The intent is that this frame will then be hung inside a window so that the sun can pass through. Anyway, the glass is maybe 2x3 feet and pretty heavy; and they have requested a simple miter. My question is: are biscuits strong enough to hold all this together or do I need something else?

Thanks Mark

Reply to
DejaVoodoo
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I would consider pocket screws in addition to the biscuits. Having a mechanical means of keeping the joint together would be a good thing, considering the circumstances.

-Nathan

Reply to
N Hurst

I was thinking the same thing, but the frame will be visible on both side so screws are not really acceptable. Perhaps a couple dowels though the joint would look ok.

Thanks Mark

Reply to
DejaVoodoo

I have been making picture frames for my wife's paintings for years. Some have been bigger than yours, some smaller. She paints on canvas and uses 1" X 2' pine or fir for the stretchers. I have never made one for a stained glass of that size.

One factor that will effect the strength is the width of the frame. Mine are about 2" wide. The wider frames could receive 2 biscuits.

Once assembled, the only stress on the mitered joints will be the downward pull in the plane of the frame. There will be no twisting, nor stretching in the plane of the frame that would increase the angle of the sides. I don't believe you will have a problem.

If on evaluation you are still concerned you could use biscuits for the miter joints, and add a thin plywood gusset in each of the bottom corners to increase the joint strength when it is in the hanging position

Do you know who was the first people to use "biscuits"

Reply to
Keith nuttle

no. at 6sqft, it will be at least 10 lbs of glass + lead, so say

15lbs.

you can do a spline for a lot more strength.

regards, charlie

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Reply to
charlie

What is a gusset? And I thought Norm invented biscuits as well as brads...;)

Reply to
DejaVoodoo

Depending on the species, you can get or make pocket hole plugs out of a dowel rod of the same wood, and it should match up close enough that it should be acceptable. Rockler carries cherry and walnut, and I'm sure you could find some of the more exotic species... though the $$$ will probably add up pretty quickly.

-Nathan

Reply to
N Hurst

You can cover up pocket holes even more easily with pre-made wood plugs:

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Reply to
Scott E.

Do they have to be mitered corners? A rail-and-stile construction would be stronger, especially if the tenons were deep and an inch up from the bottom. Maybe you could pin the tenons with some ebony pins and bevel (flattened pyramids) the heads, leaving them slightly raised. That kinda stuff looks very Greene & Greene.

Reply to
Robatoy

Even without contrasting wood this looks very nice when done.

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Reply to
Limp Arbor

My preference would be to do a lap joint (that is how I did all my face frames on my kitchen cabinets - it is a very strong joint), but they want miters. I'm thinking I can get 2 biscuits in each joint. I have not actually seen the wood yet - I think it is pine, but I will not know until I get it tomorrow. They have burned some lettering into it already, so I kind of have to get it right the first time.

Thanks Mark

Reply to
DejaVoodoo

I agree that 2 biscuits, properly glued and clamped would make a very tough joint.

Reply to
Robatoy

Do a spline. Make a jig that is like an upside-down U that rides your table saw fence. One side has a tall face. This you can use as a tenoning jig btw. To that face you attach a 45 degree block. This allows you to first assemble the frame just with glue on the miters. Then after that has cured you run the corners through on edge. Make sure you use a blade that makes a square cut at the top like one of the cutters from your dado set. Then you make a 1/8" spline with the grain running across the joint. I attach a sacrificial strip of wood on the edge of the 45 degree block every time I change the cut so there is no tearout on the back side of the cut. You'll have to supersize the jig to handle a frame this big but it will work.

-Kevin

Reply to
LEGEND65

My choice would be a joint whose name I can't conjure up (and I can't seem to find any pictures of it) but it's a mortise and tenon joint that's completely hidden and looks like a regular miter on the outside. A blind mortise and tenon miter? The tenons (on the rails) take the shape of a 90-degree right triangle and stop 1/4" shy of the end of the board, and the stiles obviously have a triangular shaped mortise recessed into a regular miter to receive them. I can find a picture of it later on (when I get home from work)...

Reply to
Steve Turner

DejaVoodoo wrote in news:e77b9eba-6dcc-4c31-bcbd- snipped-for-privacy@f29g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

A mitered bridle joint solves both the strength and appearance problems - this is the only example I found on Google images:

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luck!

Reply to
Elrond Hubbard

That's almost the joint I was talking about, but the tenon doesn't go all the way through.

That's a *very* thick tenon, btw.

Reply to
Steve Turner

Steve Turner wrote in news:fpGgl.2520$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:

I agree - I'd go for thirds.

Reply to
Elrond Hubbard

Splined miters. Lots of good long-grain to long-grain glue surface.

scott

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

There are plugs available for pocket screws that can virtually render the pocket invisible.

Dave

Reply to
David G. Nagel

DejaVoodoo wrote in news:3b25cfdc-61c4-4a37-acd4-51cab8bd27d3 @v5g2000pre.googlegroups.c om:

How bout a half-lap miter? I drew one up:

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like a miter, but extra strength, lots of gluing surface.

Reply to
Larrybud

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