Fire extinguisher recommendation for a home shop

[Andy Dingley]

That depends on your halon, and whether you've done something as radical as spraying it onto a fire. The aircraft and confined-space halons (halon 1340 ?) are deliberately chosen to have less-toxic combustion by-products than the commonplace halon 1211.

I keep about 15kg of halon in the workshop, but as it's hard to replace I don't use it. I'd have to have a serious hydrocarbon fire before I went for those - little stuff or electrics would get hit with dry powder, or water for timber.

So far my only workshop fires here have been sawdust in the extractor (bucket of water) and a very small titanium fire (stand back and watch the pretty fireworks).

[Andy Dingley]

Yes, but it still doesn't work worth a damn. US Navy advice for a metal fire on an aircraft carrier is to shove the affected aircraft overboard.

[Ba r r y]

As long as the presence of mind is there to not use the water bottle on energized equipment or burning liquids. If bad things are progressing quickly, that presence of mind may not be around.

I vote for multiple, decent sized dry chemical extinguishers. They should be spread out, in easy to find places. I pole or wall mount mine at chest height. Extinguishers buried under scrap or in the back of the closet don't count.

Barry

[Ba r r y]

Halon is good sometimes.

It's really bad if you use a lot of it and don't have a clear path out. The fire may be out cold, but so will you.

Halon also stinks if you need to use it outside, like just outside the shop door, or in an automotive situation. The slightest breeze carries the gas away. DAMHIKT.

Barry

[Charlie Self]

Barry notes:

Sort of like people who put the kitchen extinguisher close by the stove, where you're bound to get at least partially fried just reaching for it. Best bet: one extinguisher (minimum) each side of each entry door, plus others as needed.

Charlie Self "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal

[jo4hn]

The MacKenzie brothers came out with a movie some years back. The subject of putting out fires was well covered. It had to do with drinking massive amounts of beer. mahalo, jo4hn

[Ken Yee]

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Do a quick web search.

among others.

ken

[Charlie Self]

jo4hn responds:

Works great...unless it's an electrical fire at which point life gets lively.

Charlie Self "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal

[Ken Yee]

Andy Dingley wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Ack. 2M airplane? :-P Halotron is being offered by some companies as an alternative to Halon, but it's supposedly not as good...

ken

[njf>badge]

Your lucky, get caught with Halon here and into court you go, only a very few industries are allowed it, along with the mil and police for extingushing their comrades in riots...

[John McCoy]

Ken Yee wrote in news:Xns956E7327CB02kenkyeeyahoocomSPAMG@216.251.47.166:

My guess would be that if there's a metal fire going on, the aircraft is no longer worth $2million :-)

John

[Mark and Kim Smith]

[Greg]

I still think that in a wood shop you are most likely to have a wood fire. Water is the best way to fight that. If you are sloshing flamable liquids around to the point that you really have to worry about water spreading the fire you should tighten up your flammable liquid procedures or think about calling it a class 1 div 2 and using explosion proof electrical fittings. If you really think your biggest danger is an electrical fire you need to get an electrician out there. My shop is virtually 100% GFCI so a small splash of water will shut it down. I have already said you should have a big ABC extinguisher but I still say a pressurized water is also handy. To start with refills are free and you don't have to refill it everytime you use it. If you squirt a teaspoon of dry powder you are going to be paying to have it cleaned and recharged. The powder keeps the valve from sealing again and it will be dead within a day or two.

[J. Clarke]

Interesting. I didn't realize that anybody was still selling them. Do be sure that you have enough in the bank to cover the fine. Is there such a thing as "halon insurance"?

[Dave Hinz]

It also turns into various nasties at very high temperatures, but if you're in that hot of a fire and using an extinguisher, you're in trouble already.

[Greg]

I worked in computer rooms with Halon systems for years. We got lots of pitches about how safe it was. The story goes that Halon will put out a fire at concentrations that will still allow humans to breathe (that is the design size of the system) but you are still supposed to get the hell out. The demo always showed a guy sitting in a chair while it dumped, then he gets up and walks out like nothing ever happened. I assumed that was a joke but I also understand Halon is the extingusher of choice on nuke subs so it can't be that toxic. As for the heat issues, the computer rooms were going to go off about 30-45 seconds after the detectors smelled the first whiff of smoke so the fire shouldn't be that hot yet. You had that long to hit the "abort" button if it was a false alarm. There was no mistaking the alarm. It was loud enough to make you want to evacuate or at least hit abort to stop the noise.

[Charlie Self]

John McCoy responds:

Maybe not. Maybe yes. But I'd like to know what kind of military aircraft you can get today for $2 million. Small helicopter or recon plane?

Charlie Self "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal

[news.cfl.rr.com]

Most smoke detectors installed in new housing (less than 5 years old), sound alarms throughout the house when one goes off. If not, it's a simple thing to daisy chain one alarm to another. If you have no idea what I'm talking about then you need to talk to a professional. I have a large (7kg) ABC fire extinguisher in my shop. I got a discount when I went to my local fire house and asked questions. Believe it or not, Firemen are as friendly as police (or more).

"patriarch [e-mail]" The Home Depot ad in today's paper featured a couple of fire extinguishers,

garage/shop,

[RKG]

Actually a search on the website shows text from the law that banned halon. It also lists exemptions from the ban on discharging the stuff and one of the exemptions was fighting a fire for which the system was designed.

Rick

[Scott Lurndal]

What fine?

Must I now dismantle my halon fire protection system?

No. It is legal to continue to use your existing halon system. It is even legal to purchase recycled halon and halon produced before the phaseout to recharge your system.

However, due to the fact that halons deplete the ozone layer, users are encouraged to consider replacing their system and making their halon stock available for users with more critical needs.

Are there any federal laws on emissions of halons?

EPA's final rule published March 5, 1998 (63 FR 11084) prohibits the intentional release of Halon 1211, Halon 1301, and Halon 2402 during the testing, repairing, maintaining, servicing or disposal of halon-containing equipment or during the use of such equipment for technician training. The rule also requires appropriate training of technicians regarding emissions reduction and proper disposal of halon and halon-containing equipment (see the guidance document for more information).

The rule became effective April 6, 1998.

scott