Fastening to metal studs

Hi all,

I'm builing a cherry mantle for some friends, the floating type, made to be fastened directly to the wall above the fireplace. There are no sides, so no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so. I had planned to use French cleats to hang it from the wall, but they just found out from the builder that the house is built with metal studs, and not wood as we had expected. Can you hang that much weight from metal studs, and if so, what sort of fastening system would be best? There are basically 4 studs along the length of the mantle.

Thanks,

Bob

Reply to
giga
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That shouldn't be a problem - then again, it depends on how much crap the owners put on the mantle. The weight of their stuff could easily exceed the weight of the mantel if there's a reasonable size shelf top.

You should use expanding metal anchors into the studs such as a Molly anchor or toggle bolt, and you might want to consider making the french cleat on the wall taller so you could get a couple of fasteners in each stud. You could also use some construction adhesive, but that's belt and suspenders and probably not necessary.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

Sure. You could hang it from just the drywall too. ___________

You could use any sort of expanding fastener or just screws meant for fastening drywall to metal studs...there is very little "out" force, mostly it is "down".

Reply to
dadiOH

BEWARE: Mantles end up being the resting place of expensive "objects d'art" (if not for this resident, perhaps for the next) and because of this fact you may well be doing yourself a favor to "over engineer" ... you do NOT want any unpleasant call backs from "friends".

What material is the wall? This information is important to an effective solution.

Self tapping screws can be used into the metal studs, but, depending upon the wall material, I would also routinely throw in a few molly bolts in between the studs for the wall half of the French cleat.

As others have mentioned, and depending again upon the wall material, a bit of construction adhesive would also add to the "belt and suspenders" approach, which is certainly justified in this particular situation due to first above.

Reply to
Swingman

what would the adhesive do attaching the cleat to drywall? the paper isn't very strong, and that's all you're gluing to.

Reply to
charlie

If I were doing this job, shear load is not going to be a problem; however, cantilever loading could be.

As someone suggested, the wider the French Cleat, the better. 6"-8" would be a good starting point, 12" if there is room.

I would attach this cleat using #14, coarse thread, self tapping, S/S, flat head, sheet metal screws (At least 2-3 per stud) along with construction adhesive.

Just you're basic belt and suspenders design approach.

Allow the adhesive to cure 10-14 days before using.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

"charlie" wrote

How do you know the OP is attaching to drywall?

Nonetheless, much of the "fastening" of chair rails, wainscotting paneling, to drywall is done with at least some construction adhesive. Later down the road, when trying remove same, you gain a quick understanding as why it is not a bad idea to include in it in a "belt and suspenders" approach. :)

Reply to
Swingman

The adhesive increases the surface area of the cleat in contact with the drywall.

The increased surface area reduces the load/square inch on the joint.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

Precisely ... and the width of the mantle from front to back is an important component of this particular force, and, like the wall material, is unknown at present.

Nothing like trying to offer solutions when most of the important factors are unknown. :)

Reply to
Swingman

It also depends on the gauge of the metal stud. I hang entire rows of wall cabinets on metal studs with toggles if they're thin gauge studs and self tapping screws if we're dealing with thick metal... even then we pre-drill with a 1/16 bit. The load on cabinets is more shear, and Lew is right about the load being very different if the shelf protrudes from the wall and creates a cantilevered load. One brass statue and Swing's caution should be heeded. ( Or one arm of my ex with a beer in her hand leaning on it...MUCH more serious than a brass Rodin.)

Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones. This building doesn't have a bd-ft of wood, to screw into, in it:

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have installed many kitchens in here and toggles are my friend.

Reply to
Robatoy

(suite 114 is one of our jobs)

Reply to
Robatoy

Have you ever tried to suck the paper off the wall before? ;~)

The strength would be in the huge adhesion area and while not sufficient by itself would add considerable stability to other fasteners. I have seen large pictures hung on those removable 3M adhesive hook strips and those do not cover much area by comparison.

Reply to
Leon

"Robatoy" wrote

Toggles. When in doubt, I always use properly installed toggles. The plastic expanding ones will cut themselves on the inner edge of a metal stud hole, so use metal ones.

Interchangeable terminology for a "molly bolt" down here in Tejas ...

Reply to
Swingman

I should have elaborated a bit...

The wall is garden variety drywall. The mantle itself is 8" deep and about 4" thick. It's done with a torsion box, so it's not solid cherry, but it sure ain't balsa wood. It's the cantilever force I'm concerned about. That's a lot of weight hanging as far as 8" out from the wall, with only 4" of surface area against it. I'm not sure that adhesive would be much of an aid in this case. The cleat itself is Lee Valley's aluminium Z-clips

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, two sections of 2' each. It's not very wide, but I reckon I could drill pairs of holes instead of singles in each location, but maybe not #14.

Bob

Reply to
giga

The ones I use have two spring-loaded wings that deploy after insertion.

So whatsitgonna be? A pop and sub or a soda and a hoagy?

Reply to
Robatoy

I suppose it is a bit late for this idea, but I would have approached it a little differently. I would have built a torsion box with a tapered (45-degree) removable front and screwed the back part of the box directly (and flush) into the studs, with a long screwdriver, and then re-inserted the front 'panel'.... even before applying the finish....maybe. Those cleats are going to keep your box away from the wall, aren't they? Or are you letting them in?

(I'm not trying to belabour a point here, but I do run into these situations, so I'm keeping an eye on this thread.)

Reply to
Robatoy

: > no support from the floor. It weighs about 25 lbs or so.

: Sure. You could hang it from just the drywall too.

The weight of the mantle is not what you worry about. You need to estimate the load of a 300 lb 6'6" guy leaning on it with his fore-arms. Or maybe two such guys. Or, worst case, someone standing on it to put the star on the top of the Christmas tree. If it looks big and solid and it's attached to the wall, people will assume that it can take load like a step-stool.

True story: A guy was making some pull-down stairs for a hay-loft, and asked my father to check the design. My father recommended beefing up a cross bar, and the guy asked why, since it didn't have any load on it. My father explained that sooner or later some guy was going to use it as a chin-up bar.

The day after it was installed, the guy was showing it to his neighbor, a big football player type. As soon as he saw the bar he jumped up and chinned himself on it.

--- Chip

Reply to
Chip Buchholtz

"Robatoy" wrote

An R'erC and a moonpie, thanks!

;)

Reply to
Swingman

Guys, give me a large enough cleat and a notched trowel to apply the adhesive, and the ONLY purpose of the fasteners is to hold the cleat snug while the adhesive cures.

After the adhesive cures, remove the fasteners and plug the holes if you like.

There purpose has been served.

BTW, SFWIW, major difference between Toggle and Molly bolts in my part of the country.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

That I may well have to stand corrected is a distinct possibility, due to my coonass upbringing where the translation doesn't always coincide with the Anglais.

The ones I'm talking about are the ones with the "wings on springs" that pop out after being poked through a pre-drilled hole. They are by far the strongest "wall anchors".

Reflecting on it, they are more "toggle" like in their description, so Boudreau probably don't know what da hell he talking about, him.

Reply to
Swingman

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