drywalling shop

I think it would be no problem. Just be sure to leave yourself a gap of the right size.

How tall are you? If you hang horizontally, you have the big easy seam 4 feet off the ground and do not need to go up and down the ladder as much when taping. You can also use 12 footers easier and potentially elimate another seam or two.

I couldn't just do the walls all the way up and start the ceiling "inside" the drywall on the walls?

I'm of average height and I also forgot to mention that these are 10-foot walls. So, either way, somebody's getting on a ladder to tape, I imagine. It still might be better to do it perpendicular to the studs, though. I'm less worried about which way the walls go than I am putting the ceiling off for now.

thanks for your response.

todd

Let me play the devil's advocate for a moment.

Ever consider using T&G siding.

Relatively low cost, you won't punch holes thru it, and you can pretty much hang anything you want, anywhere you want.

Be a good idea to rough in the electrical under the siding under the wall covering, whatever you use.

BTW, not my idea, NYW had project building a workshop in a garage that used it.

YMMV.

Lew

I hadn't considered T&G siding. I had considered plywood, though. The siding would be a sight easier for me to deal with compared to the drywall. I imagine it's at least double the material cost of drywall, but if I factor in hiring out the drywall hanging like SWMBO wants to do, I might come out ahead.

Although I didn't highlight it, I'm curious to get people's input on the electrical. One thing to keep in mind is that here in the Chicago area, I've got to run everything in metal conduit, so running wire inside the walls isn't quite as easy as drilling some holes and pulling romex through. I've read archive posts where people found it acceptable to surface mount in a shop situation.

thanks for your input,

todd

Are you doing a "commercial" shop? In most areas I am familiar with, ROMEX is acceptable for "home" applications and conduit is required for "commerical" applications. If you are building a "home" shop and haven't asked Code Enforcement, it might be worth asking.

Having said that, it is certainly easier to la conduit outside of finished walls than to run it through studs - although there is a more flexible variety than the steel now a days - but CODE RULES if you are to be INSPECTED. If at all possible, route your wiring behind the walls. You may be able to pass inspection with that flexible spiral bound cable which can be easily routed through stud walls.

I ran duplex outlets around the perimeter with a steady and a switched circuit all around the shop. You can wire the tp two outlets switched or just the top left (be consistent so you will remember which is switched!) This allowed me to leave all those transformer things plugged in 24/7 but able to switch them off when I left the shop. Saves on electricity and fire hazards. I ran 12/4 (Red, White, Black and Bare) but I didn't invite the inspector - hell, I told no one.

As to the wall surfaces, T-111 is a good idea but OSB works as well - smoother surface - and is cheaper than drywall in our area. It can take a screw - don't think it will hold one as well as solid wood but no facts to back that up. And, as the fellow said about the T-111, it will take more punishment than drywall. If your studs are 16" O.C. you should be able to hang the boards vertically easier than horizontally and use a two foot section along the bottom horizontally. I used joint compoud on my OSB seams and texture on the walls and ceiling and it worked out nicely.

Ceiling goes up FIRST **. And, don't discount its value up there. Primed, then painted with a Bright White, it will provide double the illumination (well, I just made that up- again, no facts or research, just opinion) with any given wattage and LIGHT IS important in a shop. Esp as you age in place. Ten foot ceiling height. I'm impressed. As the intensity of the light diminishes inversley with the square of the distance, I may have been experiencing a much greater illumination boost from my bright white ceilings than you can achieve. But it will make a difference

My 2 cents.

I echo what Lew said. Plywood, T&G, even wafer board. We did our garage in drywall a few years ago, stuck in a bunch of circuits in, etc, for all the power tools. We even air conditioned it, so it is actually a shop, not a garage.Only vehicles ever in it were during the hurricane a couple of years ago (stacking power tools to make enough room was NOT fun).

Drywall was a mistake. I will have some sort of solid siding for the next (and last) shop. This will be the ultimate shop, as I intend to spend my retirement in it. The cost will be a bit more than with drywall, but since I expect to use it for another 20 years, it will be worth it. Nothing fancy, but someplace with all the wiring hidden, and white painted ply or T&G or wafer board so I can hang something where ever I darn well please. I do this with the current shop, but sometimes it entails head scratching and finding the darn stud sensor.

Regards, Roy

Put up something you can screw into whatever you do. My shop is a concrete sectional garage. This means concrete panels bolted together make the walls. The centre of the panels are very thin, only the edges have any thickness and the inside edge around the panels is bevelled. To hang anything I had to rip strips of ply to the right angle (I don't have a tablesaw), laminate them together, drill them for the bolts and bolt them in place using longer bolts. Then I screwed 18mm ply onto them. So far the wall above my bench and the end wall above the bench are done. Means I have two wall cabinets on the end wall now and some saws are hung up by shaped blocks through the hole in the handle.

Don't do drywall, think finding studs every time you want to hang something.

Peter

Roy wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

If I was hanging things on a regular basis, I'd probably find a couple studs and discretely mark their location on the wall. (Up near the cieling or down near the floor. Just a 1/2" line on each side of the stud gives you something to go off of, especially if you know your stud spacing's consistent.)

Wonder if we could get an issue of some magazine like "Better Homes and Gardens" to publish a room where blue chalk lines 16 inch on center are part of the decor. :-)

Puckdropper

Let's just say that the Chicago area isn't like most areas you're familiar with ;-). Romex is not code for any interior home applications that I'm aware of around here. The garage/shop was built last year along with a major addition to the house, and was inspected, including the electrical.

Except for certain (short) applications, BX or Greenfield is not allowed. Certainly not as a replacement for conduit in a long run.

I don't plan on having this inspected, but I do plan on doing it per local code.

thanks,

todd

I'm in the process of finishing up my new shop. At the suggestion of a local contractor (cousin through marriage), I covered the interior walls with OSB (oriented strand board) smooth side out.

The 7/16" OSB was about half the price of 1/2" drywall at the local borg. With a little care, the seams tend to disappear after painting. For the one or two seams that were a little stubborn, a some paintable caulk before painting took care of them.

Well, that's what worked for me, anyway. The added benefit is that I don't have to worry about poking boards through the drywall.

Joe

aka 10x

I don't know what all the fuss about drywall is. Every shop I have had was drywall and the next one will be too. No problems hanging anything on the walls since the invention of the stud sensor. I have a couple friends that put up wafer board. It took tons of primer to seal it, and the glues and resin still sneak through in places. Plus drywall is a bit quieter than wafer board. It seems to me their shops echo the noise off the walls more than mine, Greg

I did my shop with drywall. Since it was not an occupied space and separate from the main house, I used 3/8" drywall all around to make the job a little easier. However, check your codes, mine allowed it.

Ceiling first so that you don't have to match up to any crooked walls and probably takes movement without cracking better. Make a couple of T-bars, or rent a lift.

Horizontal actually easier, in my opinion, you can rig some step on lifts to close the seams, simple levers on blocks, although they sell or rent some devices that do that. I like working that horizontal seam four foot high, easier than working a lot of top to bottom seams.

Why would you not put the electrical in first?

The drywall was primarily to seal the insulation. After finished I installed a bunch of framed sections of perf board to hang stuff on. The drywall has held up well, despite my propensity to swing boards and tools into it. Haven't punched any holes yet.

This from an individual who hates floating drywall but can do it when necessary.

Frank

"todd" wrote on 24 Jun 2007 in group rec.woodworking:

Pegboard is light, easy to handle, and convenient. If you need to get behind it, you just remove the mounting screws.

Last time I did the walls in my shop I used OSB. Fairly cheap but provided a lot of wall space without having to look for studs when hanging things up. run your wire on the outside in a conduit and it should be a snap.

Thom

I'm with Greg.

I have drywall and I like having a "finished" space to work in. I *know* that my studs as 16" O/C because I put them there. They are easy to find because they are on one side or the other of every outlet... thre wraps of the knuckles and I know exactly where a stud is.

-Steve

I'd stick with drywall. If you do poke something through it, it is easy to patch. Also provides more fire protection than OSB. Also less flamable surface to catch on fire to begin with. Take the time and do the electrical first. That way it won't be in the way when you want to hang cabinets, etc. Horizontal on the walls is better, IMHO. Just to make things a little more complicated, some people use double thick drywall. The outer sheet is glued to the inner sheet so there are no fasteners. I'd do the ceiling first. I get the feeling that you want to get the walls done so you can move in sooner. That means you'd have to move out to do the ceiling.

Pete Stanaitis

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todd wrote:

Hi Todd,

As other's have mentioned, your options are basically drywall, plywood, or T&G boards.

I wouldn't suggest pegboard over bare insulation, since there would be lots of holes leaving the flammable vapor barrier exposed. I doubt it would meet code if you ever had the house inspected (for selling, or whatever).

The nice thing about drywall is it's forgiving. If your cuts are less than perfect, or your walls are out of square, you can fix it all up during the taping stage. It's also a lot easier to fix later if you need to cut a hole and patch it later, or if you relocate some shelving and need to patch the screw holes left behind. Regardless of what you install, you WILL damage it at some point, so repairs are something to consider.

I used T&G for many of our ceilings, more for the appearance than the strength or durability. It's less likely to be damaged on the ceiling than it would be on the walls. However, you might want to check your local codes. Many areas require a layer of drywall under T&G paneling, so you might just be doubling your costs.

Also, keep in mind you can cut holes for electrical boxes or to fit around beams or other projections easily in drywall. Just a utility knife and/or a handheld drywall saw. If your measurements are off by a 1/4" or so, you can patch it up during the taping stage. With T&G and plywood, you'll have to be a lot more precise with your measurements and cuts. A "mistake" will be there forever, or you'll have to recut a new sheet.

As for hanging things on the wall, most items like shelves or cabinets will span more than a couple of stud bays anyway. Just use a studfinder to locate the stud to screw the item to the wall. For smaller items (sawhorses, extension cord reels, etc.) I like to make "racks" (kind of like custom made coat hangers) and screw the rack to the wall, then hang my items on the rack.

My wife and I drywalled our 24x28 garage, as well as all of the walls in our house. It's really not that hard once you've hung a few sheets. I prefer screws over nails, every 6" around the edges, and every 12" in the middle of the sheets (into the studs, of course).

Oh, and some drywall is white on both sides... :) Put the side with the tapered edges out. :)

If you're installing more than a few sheets, I recommend contacting a drywall supplier and have them deliver. Drywall is heavy and they can deliver it right into the room you're working on. Sure beats loading it onto the cart at the home center, loading it in the truck in the parking lot, and unloading it when you get home. Unless you want the exercise, save your strength for hanging the drywall. You can usually get lower prices by buying in volume too.

I've done it both ways and haven't noticed much difference. The theory is the wall sheets help support the ceiling sheets. But with a 24'x28' ceiling, there are lots of edges that aren't supported by the walls. I think the more important issue is proper backing. Before you hang the walls or the ceilings, install blocking anywhere you think you'll need to screw up a sheet of drywall (or nail T&G, or plywood).

We hung ALL of our drywall vertically. I personally think it results in a stronger installation, since all drywall edges are supported by studs and top/bottom plates. It makes taping a little more interesting, climbing up and down the ladder, but we hung 14' sheets vertically in our house and it wasn't that big of a deal. Climb the ladder, tape the upper half, then come down and tape the lower half. You have to climb up to hit all the nail holes and the corner joints around the ceiling anyway, so it's not that much difference.

The primary advantage of the horizontal approach is it results in less "waviness" as you look across a long stretch of wall. You also don't end up with any seam bumps when hanging cabinets or shelving. But like I said, we did all our sheets vertically, and didn't notice problems with either of those issues.

It would be better to run the electrical in the wall, as any exposed conduit is going to collect dust, get in the way of installing cabinets and whatnot, and be more vulnerable to damage. But, since you've already insulated, it may be too late to consider that.

You mentioned you are required to have conduit in your area. Is PVC conduit allowed? It's easy to work with, and non-conductive. You could install the conduit in the walls now, and put the actual wiring in later when time and money allows.

With proper backing for the sheet edges, no big deal at all.

Not a problem at all.

Have fun!

Anthony

Find a source for 3/8" roughsaw plywood siding. It goes by the name "roughtex" in some circles. This makes an excellent and tough wall for a shop.

You can paint it, but it looks find left natural.

T&G pine is also another method but it's slower to install.

I would surface mount ALL electrical in conduit. I used plastic conduit and stranded wire. Much easier to deal with and it goes up quick.

todd wrote:

I'm pretty sure you can do both of what you are describing (walls before ceiling, and vertical installation). The pros don't install boards vertically because it is faster the other way and because you get a better finish. Vertical edges are harder to feather than horizontal edges. Unless your mudding job is perfect, the repeated vertical edges every four feet will be visible through your finish, and tend to be more distracting than a single edge four feet from the floor.

The pros also hang the ceiling first, then butt the walls up to it because it is possible (provided your ceiling joists are perfectly level) to get perfect seams at the ceiling without stressing the sheet. You will find it very hard to put the last sheet in without leaving a gap of 1/4" or so if you hang the walls first.

HOWEVER, as any amateur who has ever hung drywall can tell you, enough mud and enough sanding will fix all of these problems. You might get cracks in the finish someday. So what? It's your shop, not your dining room. You will almost certainly put a six-foot piece of walnut through the wall someday, as well. That is why they made patching compound. :)

That said, I would still recommend horizontal installation, because it means you have to do less taping and muding. Taping sucks and should be avoided at all costs.

Good luck with your upgrades.

- Ken