His problem is when the 40 amp cabinet saw is running, with1,400 watts of shop lights and a 20 amp dust collector when both the air conditioner and beer fridge decide to start at the same time and it kicks the MAIN breaker in his shop sub-panel. Or the thickness planer, drum sander, and jointer are all running along with the dust collector and air conditioner - all on different properly sized circuits and he decides to start the 2Hp router - you know - the old one without soft-start that needs to be on a 20 amp breaker because it kicks a 15 every time it starts. POP goes the MAIN breaker. (mabee a few other "power suckers" running at the same time)
Having the ONLY garage door opener means SHMBO doesn't open the garage door at a critical point in the power consumption curve - - - -
If you are not comfortable with the RAS, then if you are to get rid of one, then get rid of the RAS.
I like all my tools, despite not using some of them often (enough?). Ther e are several elements of this discussion that apply to my shop, though I h ave a relatively large shop - 24X30 main area, 11x24 garage area- for a hob byist.
Recently, I find I need to consolidate or reduce some aspect of some non-po wer tool items. I once had my slow grinder mounted on 2X stock, clamped i n place when needed. I later mounted it on a rolling cabinet, in the garag e. With making space for the big jointer, I need to get rid of the cabine t. Similarly, I have an anvil on a rolling base. Both of these have foot print space I'd like to remove or reduce.
I could cite further my-shop examples related to this discussion. Rather than get rid of tools, I need to get rid of some of my lumber cache.... ei ther make more projects or donate to someone who needs a bit of lumber. L ately, I've been posting on Craigslist, giving small caches of lumber to fo lks.
As stated, you know what's best for your scenario. Just use your best judg ement.
I do have some battery backup emergency LED flood lighting in the shop. So far they have only kicked on during my routine tests, and when we have had a general power failure.
I'm not really concerend about tripping an individual breaker. The only thing I have that might do that is the big Miller Mig Welder and I only use it when nothing else critical is running due to fear of electrical/RF noise causing a CNC machine to crash. I have forgotten and used it anyway a couple times. Nothing bad happened.
Nothing in my shop should trip its individual breaker even under peak load except the welder listed above. I have it on a 50 amp breaker, and the books says it should be on a 65. However, if I had say 3 2HP mills, the 5HP mill, the 1HP mill, all hit peak load in an inside corner cut at just the exact moment the air conditioner or the air compressor (3.7HP) motor started up I'd be worried. Particularly if I was also taking a heavy cut on the 3HP lathe at the same time. You might add that all up in your head and say, "Hey that's under 70 amps," (On 230V) but that is not accounting for the draw of all the servo and stepper motors. The servos on one machine are setup to pull as much as 35 amps at 90VDC each. They typically pull less than 5 amps, but in that theoretical peak load in a poorly planned inside corner cut they could draw a lot more. Then you have to remember that there are atleast 3 such motors on all five CNC mills. Not all of which are that heavy, but it all adds up. Ever one of those machines is on its own dedicated breaker sized appropriately for the machine.
The reality is not all of those machines are running all the time even though the goal is to have them all running when I am in the shop. Also, the odds of everything in the shop pulling peak load or overload at once is pretty slim. Probably infintesimal. Of course the main breaker would not trip the instant it hit 100amps either. Like most breakers it takes atleast a few seconds of overload or extreme overload to trip. I could very likely run one or two more 5HP machines or 4-6 more 2HP machines if I had breakers to put them on. My 100 amp sub panel has 2 60 amp subpanels of its own. I only have two spare breakers in the whole building. Both are 120V. Yes I am using compact breakers.
I have two 150A entrance panels in the (unfinished) basement in close proximity to my shop areas. Though my lights aren't interleaved, both panels have lighting and tool circuits in them.
If it kicks the main breaker instead of the branch breaker you really need to get an electrician to look at the wiring because there's something wrong.
Wow, you have a lot of stuff:-) How big is your main panel, or do you have more than one?
I run most of my shop tools on one 12 amp breaker, not counting the planer 240 line, compressor and DC. The other 9 stationary tools are on the one circuit. I can run 2 tools at once but almost never do since it's just a one man shop. I used to run everything but the planer on one 12 amp circuit but would always trip the breaker if running a tool and the DC and the compressor kicked on. I fixed that when I put in a
200 amp service and put the tools that often run along with others (DC and Compressor} on their own circuits. Lights I have on 2 different circuits so I always have light, even if working on lights.
Also, when I first moved here I lost all power. Couldn't figure it out so called an electrician, turned out my 100amp main breaker went bad, for no discernible reason.
On 9/19/2019 8:10 PM, J. Clarke wrote:> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:02:24
-0400, Clare Snyder > wrote: > >> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 >> wrote: >> >>> On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>> On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:> On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM, Jack wrote: >>>> >> On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> I choose a heavy stable base (100+ lbs maybe a lot more), because I am >>>> >>> not the only person in the shop sometimes. >>>> >> >>>> >> Not exactly a bench grinder, but, you might enjoy this guys build. >>>> >> He's a machinist with a "to die for shop", and skills to match. It's a >>>> >> 5 part series, but his channel has lots of really nice shop built >>>> >> tools. This one fits your "maybe a lot more" thinking:-) >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>
formatting link
>>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> or more simply: >>>> >> >>>> >>
formatting link
>>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> P.S. I'd probably have some of the bigger old iron he has or similar >>>> except when I built my shop its was only intend to be a warehouse for my >>>> contracting business. I only ran a 100 AMP drop to the "warehouse" for >>>> light, a few outlets, and a small air conditioner for the office. I >>>> figured that was overkill. Boy was I wrong. >>>> >>>> When I start getting multiple machines going I start adding up my >>>> electrical usage in my head to make sure I'm not going to trip the main >>>> if the office air conditioner or the air compressor comes on (both draw >>>> about the same peak on start up.) There was once or twice when I heard >>>> a couple machines load up at once that I thought to myself, "I'm sure >>>> glad I am the only one with a remote for the overhead doors." >>>> >>>> I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have been >>>> free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd have to >>>> turn off everything else in the shop. LOL. >>> >>> Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks when >>> a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker. >> WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own >> doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - - > > If it kicks the main breaker instead of the branch breaker you really > need to get an electrician to look at the wiring because there's > something wrong. >
First off I was a licensed contractor. (For well over 20 years with multiple licenses) You can have more breaker capacity than main capacity. Its allowed under code and almost every modern house in America is setup that way. Probably if you go add up the rating on every breaker in your house you will find they exceed the rating of the main breaker. The thing is you never use every circuit at once to its full or even a significant portion of its rating. However if you use all circuits to 50 or 75% of their capacity you might exceed the capacity of the main and NEVER exceed the capacity of any one branch circuit. In a home that is extremely unlikely, but in a home shop its possible. Particularly one with automated machines, and machines that turn on pseudo randomly like an air conditioner or air compressor. The reality is you "might" trip some branch circuits anyway, but you might trip the main.
Now of course this is the point where you should speak louder and in a judgemental tone say, "Well you should have not been so stupid as to install such a small panel."
I would reply, "Of course. You are right. I should have guessed when I never owned a CNC machine and never even thought of it that I might someday have six of them running all at once in the building that was only intended to be a warehouse for my contracting company. Those machines along with some substantial manual machines as well."
More than once in this very newsgroup I have preached based on my experience that guys should always setup for more capacity in their home shops than they think they will ever need. Heck. I installed more capacity than I thought I would ever need. In response lots of guys say, "Oh you don't need all that" or "Not everybody is going to have a bunch of machines running at once in their one man shop." They might not, but its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
To verify my point I just walked outside and checked the main panel on my house. It was installed by a a licensed electrician other than myself, and has passed 3 electrical inspections by the county building inspector over the years. When the house was built. When I added my shop. When I upgrade my pool and added a hot tub. It has about double the individual breaker capacity of the main just adding up the values. There are 2 sub panels in the house as well. I expect I would find the same thing if I went and looked at them.
So the blanket statement you made is sort of true, but a gross over simplification and really not applicable to this branch of the thread.
Its only true for somebody who doesn't really KNOW what is going on. In my case the only thing wrong is my lack of precognition about changes in what I do and the type of business I run. I found I liked making things in my shop better than contracting, so I mostly make things in my shop now. I don't need to get an electrician.
After all of that... I have never actually tripped the main breaker in the sub panel on my shop. As I explained several posts ago. I routinely add up everything that is running in my head to double check, and the one real "potential" power hog in the shop doesn't get used when other machines are running. Actually I have three welders that are power hogs, but only one outlet for them. An old tombstone, a decent size MIG rig, and an AC/DC Pulse TIG.
Not at all. If each branch breaker is within it's limits, but the total of all the branches excedes the capacity of the main, the main WILL trip - as it is designed to do.
Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for something and couldn't find it. So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over the old one.
i had that issue a number of times as a contractor over the years. Need a tool right now... buy one. Tool needs repair... buy one. Often the difference between making money and losing money as a contractor is getting jobs done efficiently. I now have septuplets of many tools that I really only need one of. Seriously. How many heavy duty 1/2 inch hammer drills do you really need. LOL.
That reminds of the time, many years ago, when I was watching Norm build a router table with built in storage. He started building these deep drawer s and I was asking myself "What for?".
Later in the show it all became clear: Norm doesn't waste time swapping router bits, he just swaps routers.
I've taken to renting some of those "once every 2-5 years" tools to free up shop space -- - - -
But I have 3 circular saws - a Rockwell 7 1/4", a Milwaukee 8 incher, and an ancient 8 inch Skill worm saw. Just had another "brand new 1987
7 1/4" Skil Saw" dropped in my lap this weekenf. I don't need it - and apparently lots of others don't either. The local Kijiji has over a dozen circular saws listed - most of them been there a month or more - even at $25.
Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)
Only 3???? Mine range from a 30 watt pencil iron ( actually at least 2 of them) to 3? weller dual heat guns -(85/100 and 100/140) to a big heavy tirnnerman's iron and a 350 watt Cummins gun. Just sold a nice 250 watt iron I picked up at an estate sale.
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