I own a Delta shaper model 43-495X (3 HP, X5). Delta claims the maximum
spindle size available for this tool is 1 inch (I submitted a question and
they sent me a tech support email stating this). Looking around, I find the
most popular shaper cutters to be either 3/4" or 1 1/4". While I could get
by with 3/4", it would be convenient if I could use some 1 1/4" cutters (but
not on a regular basis). So I'm wondering if Delta is just following legal
mumbo jumbo and there really is some way I can use a 1 1/4" cutter SAFELY on
Delta does sell a 1 1/4 spindle but I don't think it's designed to fit in
this machine. Does anyone know if there is, in fact, a safe way to do this?
I'd appreciate the input.
I don't think I classify that as a "claim", I'd say they simply told you
the maximum spindle size that there is for that particular machine.
That sounds like a description of the design, not a "claim"... :)
Well, that's what they told you, isn't it? Just because another machine
has an option, why does that make the fact that the one you have doesn't
have the same option a conspiracy or anything more than a simple
statement of fact?
You can get 1-1/4 to 1 tee bushings at many places including Delta.
As for safety, check against any listed maximum tip speed and weight
limitation of the cutter although it would be quite unusual to find a
1-1/4 that would be excessive for a 1--not so for the 3/4 -> 1/2 that
many smaller shaper owners run into, of course.
I really do appreciate the feedback. I tried to word my post very carefully
to avoid this sort of interpretation. I'll try to be clearer:
I do not feel there is a conspiracy or that the manufacturer is making
unjust claims. This may be the limitation of the machine and I'm willing to
accept that. I was only asking if this is safely doable based on the
practical field experience of the members of this group. And I ask because
it's been my observation that many machines (not just woodworking) are
designed to have much greater tolerances than are specified in manuals or
spec sheets. In addition, a representative of a manufacturer would probably
not be wise to recommend specifications outside of what's written in the
supplied documentation for legal reasons. I only asked them to be more
thorough in my search and wasn't surprised at their response.
I was hoping there'd be something like 1 1/4" to 1" bushings or an
aftermarket 1 1/4" spindle that could be used safely on this machine (that I
simply wasn't aware of). Again, I'm fine with the current limitation if
that's what it turns out to be.
Thanks for taking the time responds.
It appeared (and still does to a certain extent) that you went out of
your way to expressly create the impression--perhaps inadvertent but the
phrase "claims the maximum spindle size available" pretty clearly says
you don't believe a machine specification.
If you instead meant to ask Delta whether it was safe to operate a 5/4
cutter on a 4/4 spindle, I can't judge whether their answer was evasive
or not as you didn't provide the question as you worded it to them.
It's clearly the limitation of the spindle assemblies available for the
machine and that's stated on the product information.
It certainly is true that any well-engineered piece of equipment (and
even not so good too a lesser extent, perhaps) is <not> going to fail at
1+small_delta above the actual specification data. It is not possible
to build something in an ordinary fashion that would function that way.
And, of course, no engineering organization is going to spec a piece of
equipment designed as size_x w/ a nX safety factor at anything other
than the design point.
There are multiple sources of bushings and many 1-1/4" cutters are sold
w/ 1" bushings (as are many 3/4" w/ 1/2") bushings included.
My reading is you probably asked the question wrong of Delta...
Anyway, the end point is you can use bushings safely as long as the
cutter limits for the spindle or the cutter aren't exceeded. The simple
consideration on limit on the spindle is total weight and diameter, the
limit on the cutter is most likely maximum tip speed.
Actually, including Delta in that <may> no longer be right--I actually
don't know about Delta anymore, for sure. Last time I tried to reorder
some of the 1/2" sash cutters I've used for years I discovered they had
quit making them and was told they (Delta) were getting out of the
cutter business entirely. A quick search on their site found a few 3/4"
supplied w/ 1/2" bushings but didn't see larger ones. That wasn't an
extensive search, however.
Interestingly enough they did show a of sash and cabinet <set>
consisting of a bunch of the old 1/2" cutters that were discontinued
that I don't recall having seen before--whether an order could actually
be placed and shipped, I don't know.
I have a 2003 Freud catalog which has a host of bushings available. I also
called a rep about this on Friday to confirm their availability. For about
$20, you can get 1 1/4" to 1" bushings. I didn't ask about other sizes
although they're listed in the catalog.
Woodworkers Supply has a bunch in their catalog as well for
significantly less if you just need bushings...www.woodworker.com
What they carry in larger diameter cutters I don't know as I'm using
3/4" almost exclusively...
replying to Duane Bozarth, Frank P wrote:
I think you should brush up on your English before you criticize someone asking
a reasonable question. You probably feel you are knowledgeable one the subject
of what is an allowable maximum spindle size for Mike's machine. You would have
been better off removing yourself from making a response than beating someone
down for asking a question.
The more time that goes by the bigger this problem is becoming... There are
things I wrote/posted close to 30 years ago on BBSs and FTP sites that are
out there on the WWW looking fresh and new to those who don't notice the
dates (if there are dates). If nothing else that knowledge tends to keep me
calm when I post! LOL
Well, since it's x-linked to the rec, yeah, I did/do...
I recall the discussion; I didn't "beat him down" at all, I simply
stated the difference between what is the supplied spindle for the
machine in question vis a vis using a larger-diameter cutter on the
available spindle...and noted that Delta (or any other manufacturer) for
liability reasons would be highly unlikely to suggest exceeding the
dimensions for their own product design by using a third-party vendor's
gear to exceed that size limitation.
Don't believe I'm going to lose any sleep over it, here... :)
The catalog shows the sizes as 1/2 to 1 inch. So, it isn't a claim;
If you use the 1 1/4 inch spindle on the machine, and if Delta said is OK to
do this, and if something bad happens, then they may be liable for whatever
happens. Delta is not going to assume such a risk.
Did Delta say that this spindle fits the 43-495X? The Delta catalog lists
the arbor in the section for accessories for the heavy duty machine.
The careful reader of the catalog will note that the shapers which list the
1 1/4 spindle as available all have 5 hp motors. Perhaps that is what they
believe is needed for such cutters.
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