Can you elaborate on what makes this a scary operation? I find it no problem at all with holddown, splitter and anti-kickback pawls set properly and feeding against the rotation of the blade and using push sticks to finish cuts.
-Doug
In addition to what Doug mentions, correct alignment, proper blade (Forrest WW1 with TCP profile) and addition of a long rip fence makes ripping a breeze all day long.
For those who are interested, one of the best books on the market for learning to use the RAS is the Mr. sawdust book "How To Master The Radial Saw" by Walley Kunkel.
Thanks for the info... my Dad recently gave me his old RAS and I find myself using it much more than dragging out the 10" tablesaw I bought a while back (which I'm generally happy with but I don't have space to keep it set up all the time). I just called and ordered the safety kit someone else mentioned in this thread. I'll have to check out this book as well.
You've hit on the problem. Almost all of the scare posts I've seen about RAS' wind up with the user having been so frightened (unwarrantedly so) by the teeth moving toward them that they fed the wood from the other side (climb cutting) which is at least 20, maybe
50 times more dangerous.I, too, find it no problem...even without holddowns, although I always used the splitter and anti-kickback device (all in one on my saw).
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
I can't understand why TS teeth moving towards the operator are OK, but RAS teeth are scary? Feeding with the rotation isn't just scary, something or someone is going to be severely damaged!
The holddown I was referring to is the one on the rear of the blade guard. On my old PowrKraft RAS, it was adjusted by rotating the guard until the holddown was just above the workpiece and then locking the guard in place. On the current Craftsman RAS, the holddown on the rear of the guard has a lock knob that allows it to be adjusted just above the workpiece and locked - the guard itself doesn't move. In either case, the holddown prevents the workpiece from being lifted by the rising teeth when starting the rip as the workpiece is fed from what is the rear of the guard for a crosscut operation.
-Doug
-Doug
Doug,
What blade do you use on your RAS?
Since I got the Craftsman RAS, I've been using the blade that came with it
- a 40 tooth carbide tipped neg hook. Part #926792, which I can't find on their web site. It seems to be a fairly good blade.
Prior, I was using a Freud 60 tooth blade - pos hook part #LU82M01D. It is a good blade and I had no trouble with it on the RAS, even with the positive hook. It's rated for TS, CMS, RAS. I like it a lot - very smooth.
I do prefer the full kerf blades as they seem to give a smoother cut.
-Doug
I think I found that blade at Sears Hardware yesterday on clearance for $17. It was part # 926797. It had identical markings to the blade on the RAS in the store. Neutral to negative hook and feed-control shoulders (look like depth gages on chainsaw blades.) I wonder if Sears is going to let the RAS go the way of the dinosaur.
Keep in mind that Sears was asking about $500-$600 for the RAS and between $150-250 for most 10"-12" compound miter saws. The CMSs' can do
90% of the cuts the I usually do on the RAS. My Dad taught me how to set up the RAS. The 10% of the cuts it can do which the CMSs' can't are rather spectacular in their utility and shear terror. The RAS is dangerous in ways the TS just isn't (climb & cross cut thumb) and completely docile in way the TS is a nightmare (it just doesn't throw things at you and the temptation to shove your hand into the blade on the cut isn't there). I have ripped 8' sheet goods on the RAS before. It presents a different set of issues to overcome that the TS. The fence is longer, (probably truer than the old craftsman TS fence) and the table is aligned along the cutting axis on the RAS.The old 60 tooth combo blade I had on the RAS had WAY too much hook for safety. I caught it climbing more often that I cared for. Back on the table saw it goes. There are many small projects where the RAS is just tons more handy to me than the TS is. This could be because the TS is on a roller base and usually stays tucked below the right side of the RAS. Cutting 12' stock on the RAS is a no brainer. Cutting it on the cross cut sled on the TS takes a day of planning ahead. I've had the cross cut sled half way across the TS when it decided to stop sliding. That's an Aw Shit sort of moment. The RAS never stops sliding :-)
TS teeth move forwards and down, holding the wood down onto the table. RAS teeth move forwards and up, lifting the wood off the table. You're reliant on the additional hold downs, not just a big trustworthy lump of iron.
No additional hold downs. There's a standard hold down built into the blade guard, even on old RAS'. Yes, it does have to be adjusted for the thickness of the workpiece for rip operations. Not a big problem and taking around 5 seconds. And, the workpiece is under the hold down
*before* it comes in contact with the blade. Do you adjust the blade height on the TS depending on the thickness of the workpiece? I do. Is a RAS an "untrustworthy" lump of iron?-Doug
There's a hold-down, not a table -- some extra applied gadget and thus less simple and trustworthy than a table. It also relies on being adjusted for thickness.
workpiece? I do.
No, I always use the blade at full height. This is the big advantage of the TS for ripping - I can use my blade so that the timber passes through it with the blade travelling vertically and almost all no horizontal drag forces.
Keith,
One point unmentioned, so far, is: Make your last vertical adjustment going up to take the slop out of the column gear. Otherwise, you can risk the blade dropping too deep and ruining your cut. This is more of an issue, obviously, on a non-throughcut such as a dado.
As several other posters mentioned, there are billions of these out there on the used market. I have a 1979 Craftsman 10" ,which did have the recall parts available, and a 1975 Delta 14". I bought both used and spent less than $200 combined. The nice thing about the Deltas is that the turret allows virtually 360 degree cutting. The Craftsman is limited to about 45 to 48 degrees. It would seem that the most sought after brand is Dewalt. You could save yourself hundreds by buying used.
Somebody already mentioned "Mr Sawdust's" book by Wally Kunkel. Also, get yourself a copy of Radial Arm Saw Techniques by Roger Cliff. It is an excellent resource. It is not in print anymore, but shows up on ebay and Amazon Marketplace.
Also, you can use the RAS as a shaper. I wouldn't. Routers have come a really long way and are probably much safer. YMMV.
Good luck,
Eric
What extra gadgert? You consider blade guards, splitters, antikickback pawls as extra gadgets?
Sorry, but the experts such as Kelly Mehler, Nick Engler & others disagree with you. Kelly & Nick suggest the blade be adjusted between 1/8" and
1/4" above the workpiece. And what about non through and dado cuts? Oh, that's right - you aren't allowed to use those dangerous devices.And you didn't answer the question about the trustworthiness of a RAS.
-Doug
The "safety" of the RAS during ripping IMO depends more on the correct blade than on the guard nose being positioned properly as well as the kickback pawl. The Forrest WW1 blade with the TCP profile really performs in the rip. It has a positive hook which gives you decent feed rates. Also correct ripping procedures are important too, such as using a push board when ripping narrow pieces etc.
Compared to a table, then yes.
I'd be happier if my cast iron table was actually just a plain rock, as was good enough for my ancestors thousands of years ago. However ditching the moving parts isn't a bad start, and ditching a part that has a safety-critical adjustment that needs setting before each piece of timber is certainly a good idea in my book.
So what ? There are an equal number of "experts" who argue it the other way. I find their arguments more convincing.
That's just silly - maybe the gullet root should be that low, but setting it on the tooth tip isn't going to clear the chips properly.
So why set the blade low ? It reduces the Scary Whirling Death Blade, but the best ways to stop that being a problem are to keep your fingers out, and to use a crown guard. In terms of cutting performance, it's a bad idea on every count.
Why set the blade high ? - because it reduces kickback risk. This is good - I can't "keep my hands away" from kickback, and I can't really build a guard against it.
Of course we're allowed to do them. Here in Evil Pinko Europe (motto: a uniformed nanny in every nursery) we celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall by performing dado cuts through old statues of Stalin. Why do people keep thinking that Europeans aren't "allowed" dado heads?
On the whole I like our HSE. I can think of some really stupid rules (Article P) coming in on wiring from other government agencies, but the industrial safety people offer good advice and have never put forward any rule or requirement that I've ever seen as pointless or excessive.
Why would I adjust before each piece? If I'm cutting 4/4 stock, I set the saw up and cut all the stock
Your choice. As for me, Kelly, Nick or Andy's unnamed experts - I think I'll follow Kelly and Nicks advice.
That's really silly. Are you suggesting the chips that are in the gullets must somehow be carried below the table, around and back up before they can be expelled over the top of the workpiece at the operator?
No argument on the guard - I use that "gadget" whenever possible.
The main cause of kickback is the rear of the blade lifting the workpiece, and the higher the blade, the more vertical the rear blade motion. Sorry, I don't buy your argument.
Maybe because of the (mis)perception that Yurpeen saws are only available with short arbors?
-Doug
That's a risk, but it's a risk that's easy to deal with. Over the width of the blade it's balanced front and back, so the force your hold-down needs to provide is much less than it would to resist the unbalanced forward forces from a blade that's rubbing on the upper portion of the blade.
It's also notable that rear-blade lifting doesn't cause kickback itself, what it causes is lifting the blade into contact with the area that does then kick it (admittedly by this point the blade will have increased any skewing it might have, which also makes the drag worse). I'd like to keep my timber away as much as possible from the really dangerous area - the patch near the top of the blade where the forward forces are largest.
If you have a kickback near-miss on a high blade, it's _very_ evident that the blade starts to lift the timber with a small force, then may (if you're unlucky) push it forwards with a much greater force. This is another reason why low splitters aren't much use - if the timber does lift off them, the timber closes up and suddenly grabs. I can feel a small amount of drag before it's a problem and just hold the timber down or kill the saw, but with a sudden impulse it's going to fly before I notice.
I've had a bad week for kickbacks to be honest - it's near freezing in the workshop and clearly the saw table has contracted. My fence is now dragging and the tail end is going out of square unless I'm careful about the setup.
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