I'm finally getting back to making my new floors after some set backs.... I plan to use flooring tongue and groove cutters on my 3 HP shaper with an outbound fence and power feed. I plan on random lengths starting with 4" wide rough cut ash. Need about 1,600 sq. ft. of flooring... I'm debating whether to climb cut... How big of a power feed do I need to do that? Is
1/4 HP enough or do I need to go up to a 1 HP? Thoughts?
No idea how much power you need but won't climb cutting ash cause it to check it all to hell? I have some pretty well trashed ash that was planed the wrong way.
I wouldn't think routing an edge would cause the boards to check, especiall y if his boards are a good bit thicker than the typical 3/8"-1/2" engineere d flooring.
I'm supposing, to get 1600 sq ft of finished flooring, you'd have to start with maybe 1800-2000 sq ft, subsequently culling the defects, other anomali es and cut to length. I vote 1 hp power feed. All the work required is wo rth investing in a more reliable tool for the size task at hand. Don't ski mp on that size of investment.
For that much product, maintaining the sharpness of the shaper bit(s) would be a concern, also. For shaping both edges of 4" wide boards, to cover 40 'X40' space, you'll be shaping about 1 mile of edge.
I suppose you've decided, but wider boards (planks) would reduce the work l oad.
Further thinking.... may not have to initially plane the boards perfectly s mooth. Once acclimated & installed, the floor would be sanded smooth for t he final perfect surface.
Sonny
Do you mean the wavy cut that climbing can produce?
Perhaps multiple light climb cuts then a finish push cut to clean it up.
See the section entitled Climb First:
You need the bulk/weight of the larger to ensure you prevent it from free-running -- the climb cut will want to pull it on; the feeder as much as pushing/pulling it through needs to prevent the runaway.
You'll just have to see how good a surface you can get w/ one pass; like always, the slower the feed the better the finish. The size of cut on T&G isn't that large; it'll probably work pretty well altho I've never run ash so don't have a specific example to go from...
Feeders are _terribly_ expensive it seems to me for what they are--altho indispensable for production work.
If you find something good buy, post back -- I need as well and had kinda' quit looking as hadn't been able to part with the $$...
Another option: Might can find a local mill to mill the edges at a reasonable cost.... as opposed to the pleasure of doing the project yourself.
Sonny
The finished flooring will be 3/4" thick. I'm thinking of climb cutting the tongue and groove to prevent splintering along the top face at the edges. It seems like ash would be prone to such splintering... maybe not??
The flooring cutters are carbide. I'd think they'd last through this job given 1/2 the cuts are tongue and half groove. Flattening the first face will be done on my DJ-20 with the power feeder. The thicknessing will be done on the planner. One edge will be jointed. The jointed edge will ride on the shaper fence and the groove will be milled. Then the tongue will be milled... groove side riding on the outboard fence. Milling the tongue will also set the width using this method. The back relief cutting will be done on my Jet planner/molder.
I looked into doing wider boards but there would be a lot of waste. 4" rough seemed to give the best yield and reduce the machining compared to say 2.5" rough. So far my ash pile has been free... (discounting my time and chainsaw mill). By the time I get to the final machining it will be well seasoned and acclimated to my home as there is conditioned air in the shop.
Yes... I don't plan to plane them on the slow feed speed for just that reason. I do need to get them to be fairly uniform in thickness though.
On 6/6/2020 2:48 PM, Sonny wrote: ...
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If there were a custom millshop that would be good option, indeed.
Here, there's no architectural mill at all; closest I know of is about
200 mi in any direction.The only cabinet shops in town aren't set up for this kind of production work on flooring-lengths stock (presuming JG's got random lengths from
5-16 ft or thereabouts).I'm not sure any of them even have the appropriate set up to be able to do effectively -- they can turn out cabinet doors, etc., etc., but long mouldings, flooring and the like just not in their baliwick. I'm more closely set up than they I think w/o the heavy feeder in I do have the shaper like John besides just a router table...
Climb cutting on a 3 HP shaper (induction motor) with a power feeder is a different ball game... I wouldn't expect to have any waves and I wouldn't even consider multiple passes on this much volume! Some of the reasons my router and router table are the least used tools in my shop... ;~)
My exact concern...
My thoughts are along these lines too. The flooring T&G cutters aren't removing a lot of material in the scheme of things... particularly the groove on a jointed surface (though the more I think about it the less inclined I am to joint one edge... ripping on the table saw with the power feed may suffice... then use the outboard fence and power feed on the shaper. I have to see how stable the wood is after ripping!).
For those not familiar with flooring T&G the quickest photo I could find is
I've been in analysis paralysis for a few years myself! Ripping lots of poplar for trim (running it through my molding machine) and this flooring project demand that I have one so I need to decide real soon.
I could do that... there is a place about a mile and a half from my house that will take rough cut and give you back milled flooring. One of the guys in my woodworking club has had it done with wood from his Woodmizer. He did if for paying renovation jobs he did. He told me the price was quite reasonable. Me... I need some projects to keep me busy when I can work in the shop. Limiting the risk (to the work and to me) is a priority for me these days so lots of controlled machine work (hence the power feeder) is imperative. I'd not undertake these tasks without one now though I would have done so 5-10-20 years ago with little concern. Life happens!
Of the rough dimensioned stuff I've got 3' to 6' lengths. Up to 11' boards in my woodshed. I think I'm going to limit lengths to 5 or 6 feet for the finished flooring. At least that is what I've got in my head. It will be all clear wood and since I am straight line edging I'm doing both edges of the rough cut and ripping from both sides to get the grain lined up with the edges. I don't like grain that runs out the side. ;~)
That is true of the cabinet shops in the area. There has also been a strong move away from solid wood into laminates and veneer sheet goods that has really limited the variety of machines I see in the shops. Saws with sliding tables and computerized controls, and big edge banding machines are in... jointers and planers more often than not collect dust. It's a different world...
There is, however, a millwork shop about 1.5 miles from my house that does flooring. There is also a temporary cabinet/millwork shop in town. That shop is making reproduction moldings, wall paneling, and such for a group of boutique hotels that are being built in former banks, office buildings and schools in town (think late 19th/early 20th century 2-4 story brick and stone buildings). I ran into the guy who runs the operation in the local building supply/hardware store where my son works... He over heard me asking my son and his boss if they can get Delta/Jet/Powermatic/etc. power feeders and struck up a conversation. He referred me to another guy I know from the woodworking club... Warren Cutlery. He also told me that they farm a lot of stuff out to other shops in the area for production runs (things like bathrooms) while they focus on the restoration woodworking.
Not sure I'd want to do the commercial cabinet stuff... the custom furniture makers in the area are interesting though (e.g., Rob Hare, Michael Puryear).
No, I mean tearing 1/4" hunks of the surface out. I was thinking backwards, though. The boards were fed splinters first, which isn't the same as climb cutting. In fact, climb cutting would tend to have minimized the waste. I still use the wood but there is a lot of waste.
Yes, it makes sense, now that I got my head around it. Heat is another issue.
BTW, anyone know anything about Harvey tools? I've been getting spam from them. Nice looking stuff but I know nothing about them and wouldn't pay the price for an unknown (to me). Parts might be an issue in the future too but I'm not so happy with Delta either.
All of us have gotten at least a little smarter in the last 20 years, as we've gotten perhaps more than a little more fragile. A power feeder would take all the intrigue out of a shaper, though. ;-) OTOH, I think if I were going to do any production work, like a whole floor, I'd certainly invest in one. That's a lot of shavings!
On 6/7/2020 3:46 PM, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote: ...
That's metal milling, not wood.
AFAIK they're metal-working tooling exclusively. Been around quite a while altho I do very little metal milling not having lathe nor milling machine.
Drat! I was looking for a site I saw earlier.
No, they have woodworking tool too; cabinet and bandsaws, lathes, and dust collection. Expensive stuff.
They are a totally and completely different Harvey -- they are in CA, the metalworking folk are in MA. The metal-working bunch parent company is Harvey Performance Company, Harvey Tool, Helical and Micro 100 are their subsidiaries.
Harvey Woodworking is pretty new on selling their own brands in US but been overseas for a while and as OEM supplier.
I've never actually seen anything first hand but they certainly look good and really aren't that out of line for comparative features. They're not in the low-end mass market, though, granted.
I vote for buying the finished flooring.
Not only does the OP need to mill the T&G, the OP should also relieve the bottom of the flooring so it lies flat. That's a lot of milling.
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