On 17 Jan 2005 11:06:31 -0800, email@example.com wrote:
USENETknows all too well the dynamics of a competitive marketplace.
USENET only wants people, educated as they may be in matters of
ecconomics not very well educated in the knowledge of power tool
operation and construction, to know what they are buying.
USENET knows the problems Ridgid and Ryobi owners have with getting
their tool serviced and doesn't want or like to see people spend
premium dollar on an inferior tool.
USENET has also mentioned that these tools have their place. In the
hands of "yuppei housewives" as mentioned by one other poster to this
RIDGID does not have a sustainable COST advantage over the other
manufacturers. RYOBI does. But, again, this is not the issue. The
issue at hand is:
Are RIDGID and RYOBI comperable tools? RIDGID in price? YES. In
RYOBI is not in the same league. TOTALLY different animal.
Again, prices are not the issue. The issue here is:
WHICH IS THE BETTER BUY? $500.00 SPENT IN RIDGID TOOLS OR
$500.00 SPENT (ON EQUAL FUNCTIONING TOOLS) IN TOOLS BY MAKITA, DEWALT
OR PORTER CABLE?
Well, actually, maybe. The OP was looking for a table saw, something DeWalt and
Makita and PC make, but not necessarily in a type the OP wants. And if he does
want a job site saw, the Ridgid is actually at least as good as, and in many
respects better than, the ones turned out by the above three. Quality is
similar. There are more features. It is somewhat easier to use. Price is
sensible. When it comes to heavier saws, the DeWalt hybrid is a good one, and
comes, stripped, for nearly $900. The complete Ridgid TS3650 is a contractor's
saw with a built in mobile base that comes complete for a shade under $600. It
is about as good as any contractor's saw out there right now.
I'm not sure what you're stating here. OK. They're comparable in price. Except
they're not. And certainly the Ridgid line of table saws differs from the Ryobi
line, so one wouldn't expect too great price similarities.
Are you stating that Ridgid is lesser in quality than Ryobi?
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush
manufacturers. RYOBI does
I would love to know how Ryobi has a cost advantage over its
competitors. I think they sell a lesser product for a lower price.
For many, the product works fine and offeres good value, for others it
If prices are not the issue, then why is it the key component of your
argument? You have presupposed your conclusion in the above statement
- ie. the tools are "EQUAL FUNCTIONING" (no need to shout, by the way),
and they cost the same, so buy the brandname. The better buy depends
on the tool in question - not every Dewalt is a whizbang.
I do not think the general public is even aware of Ridgid as a plumbing
toolmaker, and they only see the tool at HD, so they are well aware
that it is a housebrand. In fact, this may lead to some cross-branding
synergies resulting in a cost advantage, since HD promotes Ridgid and
vice versa. One might argue that a company like Delta, which contracts
out manufacturing to plants all over, is less and less a brand name
that can be relied on as a badge of quality. Plus the fact that Black
& Decker has rolled it up, suggests that brand name will mean less and
less in the tool market.
Ridgid does well in Fine Woodworking reviews, often garnering the "Best
Buy" slot, with the jointer, the bandsaw, and the sander all doing
making (money) hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
HD and Lowes have overall profit margins in the 6-7% range, which seems
decent, but does not reach the "hand over fist" threshold, IMO.
Remember that they constrain one another - they compete head to head,
unless you believe that they collude to dupe the foolish masses...
I'm sure you do.
Therefore, please explain to me how my "little" suppliers, such as
Coastal and Tools Plus, are selling ALL Makita, Porter Cable, DeWalt,
Delta, Bosch, etc... for lower prices than Home Depot and Lowes, if the
big boxes are selling said tools at a 6" markup?
You wrote this a few days back:
"Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists. NO BUSINESS CAN
OPERATE ON A 6% MARKUP!! "
Two old sayings come to mind when it comes to you:
1) You can lead a horse to water but, you can't make him drink.
2) A fool and his money are soon parted.
Buy your Ridgid. Your money, not mine. Have fun!! :)
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Is this your first table saw? If so, do you really need one?
Serious question. There are a few people here who started to post
Watch it there, Buddy!
There's a lot of us "housewives" out there who use woodworking tools (and
do it quite successfully). It's been my experience that those
"housewives" are more discriminating as a whole than are their male
counterparts. Most us ladies tend to buy tools, of any kind, more
carefully being very aware they will last us for a long, long time. We,
more than men, tend to keep the same ol' reliables around for decades so
choose more carefully in the beginning. Men, as a rule, tend to want
bigger and better to keep up with their buddies. Nothing wrong with that
because they buy and manufacturers come up with better (hopefully!) to
sell to them and we all benefit.
There are, of course, exceptions to that, but looking at the wide
spectrum, that is the way it is.
Advertisers know this, especially auto-related, which is why it is so less
common see a "hunk" in car advertisements. They know most female buyers
aren't going to be swayed by a good-looking body/face to buy something
that's not best for their uses. Yet, women make more than 50 percent of
auto-buying decisions. Go figure.
All that said knowing full well that relatively few women will ever buy a
power tool. Heck, we don't need to; when the man gets itchy feet, he goes
out the door and we get all of his! (Of course, in my case, he rarely
used them anyway, he just bought them to do various projects that rarely
were ever done. I do very much appreciate that he looked for the best
quality we could afford at the time, and all U.S.A. made.)
Never shopped at WM
and likely never will.
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:48:59 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org (Glenna Rose)
I am not the one who refered to anyone as a "yuppie housewife." I was
merely quoting a poster to my original response.
I agree with you. The ego kicks in when it comes to most of these guys
out here. This is why at least a couple of them are getting so
defensive over their Ridgid tools. Hey, it keeps Home Depot in
business. That must be a good thing in these guy's minds.
Unfortunately, they don't realize... Home Depot is slowly gaining
momentum in almost every aspect of home building and mantinance,
something some of these guys do for a living. Eventually, Home Depot
will be the only place you'll be able to buy your power tools,
gardening equipment, have a roof installed, windows installed, doors
installed, counter tops installed, carpet installed, tile installed,
etc. You can buy all your materials there all your tools there and if
you don't want to do that, they will do the work for you! These people
are patronizing their soon-to-be #1 competition! They're already HUGE,
they're getting bigger, and these people are fools not to see that.
Soon, they won't be competition for Home Depot, they'll be PART of
Home Depot's Pro Installation Team or whatever they call themselvs.
Some of my best customers are female. I appreciate their business.
And, I try my best to advise them on the best tool for the job. My
posts to this group were never intended to bash anyone (person, group
of people, or otherwise). They have been intended to inform people
that Ridgid tools are not all they are cracked up to be. I have stated
before that Ridgid tools have their place. And that is, right along
side the Craftsman, Harbor Freight, and Black and Decker tools that
sell in the lower price ranges. For the most part, they are cheaply
made tools. They do not hold up under the rigors of regular, heavy
use. There are tools out there that will.
I do not advise any of my customers (male or female) to buy Ridgid
tools. I don't advise my customers to buy Hitachi. Not because Hitachi
makes poor quality or over priced tool, but because in MY area Hitachi
does not have good LOCAL service. Hitachi, Makita, Dewalt, Bosch,
Porter Cable, Bostitch, in general, all make very good tools. Ridgid,
however, does not. They have very poor after the sale service. Their
service centers (all authorized - no factory) only get paid on their
labor once a year (this is why most repairs take a minimum of 3 months
to complete). They discontinue tools and within 4 years parts are no
longer available. Their only distributor is Home Depot.
Now, I don't know, but, is there the possibility that somewhere up the
corporate chain, one of the parent companies of Home Depot is also the
parent company of Ridgid?
My dad always told me not to put all my eggs into one basket. Yet,
it's awefully funny that Home Depot is the only distributor of Ridgid
and Ryobi tools. One BIG egg. One BIG basket.
Witness that you left out the "yuppie" part ... a big difference, and the
existence of whom can not be denied.
I'm thinking you've perhpas been watching way too many TV commercials.
Granted "doofus americanus" (you know, the guy with the constipated look on
his face, shaking his fist in the air, forcefully exclaiming "YEAH! whenever
some over paid sports figure scores) does exist and is rightly portrayed in
many of them these days .. but I seriously doubt the species buys that many
tools, and you will find about as many of them here as "yuppie housewifes".
For an alternate take, Google the countless tool buyng threads wRec down
through the years, most of them dripping with "discrmination".
Silly, I knew you didn't. You merely brought it forward which is why the
devilment in me could not resist. Hopefully you noticed the grin directly
I apologize if seemed I was annoyed or offended; I wasn't.
I so agree with you! I do shop at Home Depot, but for only a very small
percentage of what I buy (and usually when everyone else is closed).
There are many reasons for that, the chief one being I like having folks I
can relay on stay in business. It's our local lumber stores that really
know what they are doing and consistently offer good advice. I've been
fortunate to never be treated in a condescending manner by our "local
boys" (not even 20+ years ago) which I cannot always say that for the big
name warehouse types. I'm always amazed at the knowledge each individual
has at the local stores; it's not just one area but many areas of
knowledge. Of course, I do have my favorites and have been known to leave
and revisit another time when one of those favorites is there.
Perhaps I can represent at least some of my "sisters" in saying thank you.
It seems doubtful anyone would think differently.
One of the things I appreciate about this group is the acceptance of
everyone, including us gals. :-)
I am a utilitarian woodworker who will someday be a real woodworker, but
likely not for a while. Victoria's cedar chest is still many projects
away. I have lots more to relearn and learn before building heirlooms for
those two precious granddaughters. My advantage is that I know I'm
basically ignorant about much of what I need to know; the next advantage
is that I'm willing to learn. Then comes many hours of effort, probably
some failures and, hopefully, many successes.
Love your type of person! And, yes, even a good product can be "bad" if
it doesn't get support. Customer support is an important part of my
purchases. One of the reasons I am now primarily a Mac user is because of
the incredible local support of fellow Mac users in our area. P.M.U.G. is
awesome for that sort of thing. It's great to be able to call a stranger
and have him/her take the time to help which is what customer support is
I stopped shopping at Sears ten or more years ago where I had shopped for
decades because of an attitude about a defective weed cutter. The tool
lasted only ten minutes; I returned it. The second one lasted less than
half an hour. I returned it; the salesman told me they would not replace
it again! My response to that was not the most ladylike, but to
paraphrase: "You sold me a product and it *will* work or you *will*
refund my money. I did not, and will not, pay for a tool of any kind that
lasts less than an hour, which in this case two didn't last more than half
an hour." It was accompanied by a most direct and icy expression from me
to the little jerk, leaving no question even in that little moron's life
that he was not going to intimidate me. Additionally, I told him if they
would bother to purge the defective batch of weed cutters, folks like me
would have no need to return them repeatedly. Oh, well.
In fairness, I had to go there to get a part for my router a few months
ago. The salesman was extremely helpful. Not only did he have an
excellent customer attitude, but he also had a brain!
BTW, if you should ever want to relocate your business, consider our area
of the world!
That's a business decision for Ryobi's parent company, and they seem to like
it, so far.
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush
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