just got done moving the air hose reel from the wall opposite my work
bench, to overhead, near the bench. Why didn't I install one years
ago??? Used 1/2" "L" copper pipe. Was a breeze to install except for
getting to one of the mounting screws behind the reel. Attacked it with
a quarter inch ratchet and ultra short phillips bit.
Rich Stern wrote:
The pressure of the system is between 100 and 125. the L will take
everything a 175 psi system will give! I used to have an auto shop
where I installed an extensive air system with L copper. It is WAY
overrated for that. Not to worry!
Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
BTW, the burst pressure of L is MORE than 2,600 PSI. I couldn't find
the exact figure, but it's MORE than that. also, the 175 PSI figure I
mentioned was for a 2 stage, 3 phase compressor I had for the auto shop...
Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
I've been reading the threads on using plastic pipe of various material
and problems with them either shrapneling or blowing. Shops I work in
use the systems built back in the 50's, 60's and 70's consisting of
galvanized pipe. Tried and true systems. So why not use the tried and
true ways I tend to ask myself?? The ol' "Pay me now or pay me later"
If you treat them right ( bleed moisture nightly, etc ) they'll last
forever. Or, you can keep patching your plastic pipe over and over.
Even if you saved money up front, you'll probably lose that in materials
for repair and labor to do it. Don't know as I have no experience with
plastic. Just the concerns I read from others.
As for "L" copper, sounds like it has the proper rating so it'll work
just fine. Same way to assemble?? By soldering joints, etc? As for 2
stage, 3 phase etc, type of compressor, that doesn't mean anything.
What counts the most is the setting of your relief valve or "popoff"
valve in your system. Most are set at 150 psi. Most systems run at 120
psi or so. Most all "bought" compressors have the relief valve built
in, no need to add it to the system. A nice thing to add would be an
automatic spitter to bleed off moisture and scare folks that aren't used
to hearing such a thing!
Along the automotive lines, if you need something flexible in a
permanent air line, hydraulic one-wire hose would work. It'll get you
around corners pretty easy and last forever. Too tough to use at the
tool end though. It has a working pressure of 2500 ( for 3/8" if I
remember correctly. Should increase for larger sizes. Largest size I
have worked with was about 2" on a 35 ton rough terrain crane. ) With a
burst much higher than that. We're talking Parker or Aeroquip stuff.
And no need to press fittings as both manufacturers make reusable fittings.
Bay Area Dave wrote:
Many indusrial applications are being done with copper. One advantave oer
pipe is ease of change. Want to add another branch? With pipe, you may
have to break 10 joints from the new spot to the nearest union. With
copper, you just cut and put in a "T" where needed. --
This is initially going to sound crazy but here goes.
Grade school kids
"huge vacuum cleaner" (their term for "dust collector").
Now the words - kids, cleaning, dusting - and the phrase
"tidying" up don't normally go together - when they're
at home. But in a SHOP...
Maybe it's ALL THAT POWER - dust collector's muted roar,
the sound of a large volume of air being sucked into
a four inch hose, the way things magically disappear
as the end of the hose approaches them or the sound of
small pieces of all sorts of things rattling their way
through the pipes on their way to who knows where.
All of my "stationary" tools are on wheels and normally
reside against a wall. They get pulled out when used
and push back when done - leaving wood residue behind
them. Out of sight, out of mind. But, after a kid, or
a team of kids have sucked everything that they can
reach into that four inch hose, they start looking
UNDER and BEHIND things.
In BIG VACUUM CLEANER mode, kids become prospectors
searching for the Mother Load. Discovering all the
sawdust that collects under a cabinet saw is a cause
for squeeling rejoicing. That will prompt a search
through my "sticks and dowel" storage tubes for an
arm extender to get to the otherwise inaccessible
sawdust. And like gold miners, they'll stick with
"the gold vein" until it's all gone.
When they discover more "treasures" behind the tools
on wheels they'll hound you until you move them out
of the way so they can continue their prospecting.
After finding and taking care of everything the dust
collector can handle, they find brooms and start
sweeping small to medium cut offs into two or three
piles - to be gone through for later "glue stuff
together, use your imagination, sculpture/projects"
The rejects go in a scrap box for kindling and "the
good stuff" goes into each one's large zip lock
When "the room full of heavy stuff that generates
sawdust" has been picked clean they move on to the
"quiet gluing and bug spitting room" (bug spit to
them is shellac to the rest of us - but bug spit
sounds cooler). Here they can't use the HUGE
VACUUM CLEANER - they know curlies will clog it
up (earlier learning experience) - so it's brooms
and brushes. The interesting curlies get saved
for a future creative project and the rest get
stuffed in a "fireplace fire starter stuff" bag.
All those little pieces that dovetails and tenons
create are each examined carefully for some
wonderful use, the rejects going in a kindling
As a bonus for me, they also find every nut, bolt,
screw and anything else I'd dropped and couldn't
find. Those go in the "stuff that was found and
will be sorted out and put away later" can. One
of these discoveries will prompt a "what's this
and what's it for" question and one of my "too
much information" lectures. I've learned to pay
attention, so when their eyes start to glaze over
I let them get back to The Hunt.
In less than an hour the cleaning tornado moves
on, other games to play. I'm left with a nice
clean shop (it's still cluttered but relatively
clean) bags of kids project parts, a bag
of fire lighting curlies and a box of kindling.
I'm also exhausted and inspired.
Exhausted because I've had to mediate at least a
dozen "he got to vacuum for 10 minutes and I only
got to vacuum for a minute", "I found that first
and she took it", "why can't I use the push broom
this time?", "she says this is from a pin socket
and I say it's from a tail socket" disputes.
Exhausted because I've had to watch them like
a hawk to keep them from bumping their heads
while crawling under power equiptment searching
for treasure, trying to move a wheeled cart
supporting a disk and spindle sander away from
the wall to get to who knows what behind it ...
The inspiration comes from listening to all
the wonderful ideas they have for a piece of
scrap they found and saved.
Inspired because they got me to look for useful
stuff in what would otherwise be "just scrap".
For those who'e had their teeth on edge, worrying
about kids in the shop:
The sharp handtools are in wall hanging tool
cabinets behind a SCMS station and are out of
reach of kids and, with the doors closed - out
site, out of mind.
All power tools are unplugged, and those that can
be "locked down" are locked down BEFORE the human
tornadoes get started.
I've got one of those powerful magnates on a stick
things and use it when emptying the cyclone garbage
can - finding the iron bearing parts that shouldn't
have been vacuumed up in the first place.
To date there's been only one injury. While
crawling around under the sliding table of my
combination machine (a Robland X31 for the curious)
looking for more sawdust to vacuum up, and despite
my repeated "watch your head" warnings, one girl
tried to get up while under the sliding table and
dinged her eyebrow.
That prompted a "que tip and peroxide - neopsorene
- big gauze eyepatch with four big pieces of tape to
hold it in place - just for dramatic effect - medical
emergency production with an audience enjoying every
act of the three act drama, The star of this production,
with her "eye make up" was in all her glory, basking in
the attention of her fans - "Does it really hurt
bad?" - "You gonna have to get stitches?" - "Think
you'll lose your eye?"
Of course the tape and the gauze came off before she
went home and her "gaping wound" lost some of it's
shock value - a shiny neosporened eyebrow just isn't
all that noteworthy.
Maybe, in addition to eye protection, ear muffs rubber
gloves and safety glasses, I should add a helmet or
Nothing to buy, no slick jig or fixture, no new use
for an existing tool- a single, free in terms of
dollars, shop improvement. Clean shop and another
one of those priceless experiences.
The number 1 best thing I ever did for my shop was to buy ($90) a 96
drawer card file catalog from a university. Unbelievably useful and
handy. Can put bolts/screws in drawes per size;blades for hand
plane/planer/jointer/hand jointer in drawers per tool, etc.
On 06 Feb 2004 04:38:59 GMT, firstname.lastname@example.org (Rich Stern) wrote:
1) I tried for years to come up with an effective dust collection
solution for my SCMS. I've tried using a box behind the saw,
etcetera. Every solution either compromised the cuts the saw could
make, or didn't do a great job collecting the dust. Well,
I finally tried making a shroud out of that flexible plastic that's
used for freezer curtains. A couple of hours of fiddling around, and
Voila! It works! I now have a dust free miter station. It's a
flexible shroud that attaches to the saw and moves with it, and it
doesn't restrict any cut (extreme left miter+bevel, etc) that the saw
is capable of making. Very low effort for a large environmental
2) Mounted my outfeed table top on 28" drawer slides. The table is
28" deep,so when it's pushed in, it doesn't get in my way. When I
push it out, it extends out to 56" behind the saw (60" past the blade)
which is just long enough to handle 8' stock, and I can move it in and
out without even walking around to the back of the saw. After
suffering for years with temp supports and and later a large fixed
table that took too much room, I'm really happy with this solution.
3) Replaced shelves under my bench with simple shallow
pullouts. This was so easy to do it isn't funny, and it improved the
cleanliness of my shop a ton, because I can now get a lot more stuff
neatly arranged on the pullouts than I ever could on the shelves.
Great! I've been trying to come up with something similar on wheels
for Dina and you found it for me. Do you have part of the sliding
section as a flat area with a stop to make it work? Slots in the
immovable part for the larger sled? Thanks for the ideas!
T===========| | slider ||stop
S===========| | ||
In visualizing what you did, I decided that my smaller tailed tools
would benefit by being placed on a shallow sliding drawer under the
assembly table. I think I'll add one to the mechanics vise bench, too.
Now to find an Accuride set that slides both ways for the pair on
the assembly bench and devise a simple center detent to keep it in
place when I roll the bench around. A spring-loaded inline skate
wheel in a rounded V-groove ought to do the trick.
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites
Larry, I used 2 54" pieces of 3/8" by 3" cold finish steel bar, bolted
to the sides of the saw, parallel to the miter slots, with the edge
dropped just slightly (.01") below the tablesaw surface.
You could do the same thing with wood, of course; 1x4 maple or 3/4" x
4" ply would be about right. These pieces are the sole support for
the top, so the area under the top behind the saw is totally free for
storage. The table top itself is 1.25" Fnnform with a .5" UHMW top
screwed to it. Te drawer slides are just screwed to the edges of the
Finnform. I made it a very tight fit on purpose, and I've never had
the table move as work slides over it, not that it would really matter
if it did, the support would be moving with the work, which would be
I have a cab saw, and I've never seen any indication of tipping when
the table is extended with material on it, but perhaps this wouldn't
work as well with a contractor saw. Just to be sure, I bolted my saw
down for safety. I certainly wouldn't let the total go much more
than 27" behind the saw without a leg to support it. There is no
reason really that you couldn't have a support leg on a caster if you
wanted, though. In my case, I want that space, I have a tool cabinet
The drawer slides are screwed to the insides of the bars, with the top
of the slides flush with the top of the bar (remember,.01 down from
the saw top). There are no stops, the table travel stops when the
drawer slides reach the end of their travel. Remember, that far edge
is 60" out from the back of the blade, long enough for 8' stock. If I
need more (e.g, if I'm ripping a 12 footer) I have to use a temporary
One bar is bolted to the left side of the saw, the other is bolted to
the right side of the right wing (I happen not to be using a left
wing, because I have a sliding table).I bolted the left side bar to
the saw thru the holes where the left wing would normally attach. On
the right side, I drilled the right side of the wing in 3 places and
bolted the bar to the outside of the right wing.
The following detail is confusing, and it doesn't really have much to
do with the sliding table idea, but it does explain why I chose to
support the sliding table with steel instead of wood. Remember, I had
an extra wing. I used it behind the right wing. It is supported on
the right by the right steel bar, giving me an 8" by 54" right hand
side wing. This is why I chose steel for the support bar. Wood would
be fine for the support bars if you weren't doing this.
If anybody's interested in this, I'll post a pic. I've kind got a lot
of stuff going on here which complicates things, but the sliding
outfeed is really pretty easy and simple.
If you ever find such slides, please let me know! I want to add some
2 way drawers under the right side of my saw, to store panels under
Dina's a 1920's model on wheels and is a bit busty (top heavy).
I was planning on putting a caster on the bottom of the extension.
The existing table is made from waxed 1/2" Baltic birch ply and would
take a pair of glides on the bottom without any problem. Glued blocks
would handle the transition from wood to metal.
I was thinking a rolling sled storage slot might be handy there.
Thanks for the reply.
REMEMBER: First you pillage, then you burn.
Ah yes. In my case, above the outfeed table, to the right
and against the wall. 13"ish deep, 42" high and 32" front
to back. Maybe some dividers to keep the larger sleds from
banging into each other.
Also, somewhere to park the saw fence when it's not
needed/being used. I'm thinking under the right hand
extension, 'tween the saw cabinet and cabinet under the saw
And then, a place to park/store blades.
And then, somewhere for the push stick/feeder blocks.
And then, some place for the zero tolerance inserts.
And then... Sheesh! We ain't even stepped away from the
saw table and I'm already at five.
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