Hi,
I got an email from snipped-for-privacy@conroy-family.net saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. The main problem at the moment is..
My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can imagine it)
Please could you tell me if this is true or not..
SB
SB asks:
I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic.
Charlie Self "It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken
It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a chainsaw now in the UK.
Lobby Dosser responds:
Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given, though, that anything with a blade with teeth and a motor driving it can cause considerable damage).
Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken
Chainsaws alow for some extra dangerous usages. This summer i saw two construction workors installing plastic water tubing and cutting the tubes with a chainsaw. One worker kneeled on he street holding the pipe (~10" diameter) with two hands in front of him, the other kneeled on the street facing him and cutting the tube between the first workers hands with a chainsaw... Neither wore any protective clothing, face shield or ear protection.
be a
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This page "suggests" that it's "sorta" true...cf para 4...
Risk management?
Probably saves on healthcare, but it sound a bit like a rapala hitting the water.
a
You need a licence to stand _near_to_ someone else using a chainsaw.
This rule is generally observed in woodlands - it's the insurer's rule, rather than a legal requirement, The HSE rules only extend to operators, but it's now awkward for your liability cover if you have anyone who's not a ticket holder anywhere on a site where you're sawing.
On public "art events" though, where there's some chainsaw carving going on, even basic safety rules go out of the window. Lots of real cowboy stuff there, and one day there'll be an accident and the tabloid papers will go berserk for a "Ban These Evil Machines" campaign.
There are a series of licences for chainsaw operators, light felling, heavy felling, and working at height with chainsaws. You're not even allowed to buy a top-handle chainsaw without the right licence.
As to the actual injury rates, forestry in the UK has a good safety record. If you hear of an accident, chances are that it's a farmer with no training, no safety kit, and using an ancient unbraked saw that was being hard to start.
This isn't quite accurate on the details and the attribution, but it's not all that far from the truth.
(Legally speaking) People under 18 are "young people". Under 16 are "children". Most rules like this kick in at 16, not 18.
There is no licence for bandsaw use. The employer may have some responsibility for ensuring that people are "competent" to use the machine, but this isn't tied to a formal licence. As is general with most (but not all) UK worshop safety legislation, it's the responsibility of the workshop operator to judge what is "competent". There's no test they have to apply beforehand, but if there is an accident, then they have to justify their decisions in court.
Mind you, as we've seen with railway maintenance operators and the student at Shoreham dock, a large company can get away with killing workers quite carelessly, and there's no effective legal redress.
In contrast, the UK has quite good laws on machine safety and the rules applied to the machine itself (this is easier to inspect than a workforce). There's a legal requirement for certain sorts of guard, and for the machines to not carry on spinning for a long time afterwards.
There are plenty of bandsaws in education, being used by people under
So really it's the school's rules in effect here. You _could_ use the bandsaw, but only if the workshop operator feels that they can offer a suitable level of supervision for the people involved. You might have a large class there, and I'm sure you have a couple of idiots in it. Your CDT teacher just can't say "Use the bandsaw" or there _will_ be accidents.
If you look like you're not an idiot, and if the class isn't busy, then most CDT teachers become far more flexible about what you can do in the workshop. When I was at school, a few of us spent all our lunch hours in the workshop and we used _everything_. It was only a dozen or so of us though.
A bandsaw is generally a pretty safe machine. It has a blade that will injure fingers badly and allow you to remove them by pulling your hand away, but even then you're looking at surgery rather than losing the finger altogether. Actual amputations with bandsaws are pretty rare. It's also easy with a bandsaw to see where the nasty bit it - this is a small area and you can avoid it.
In contrast, jointers and planers have a reputation for not just taking the finger, but helping themselves to the whole hand. Circular saws will amputate a finger quicker than you can pull it away and they also have the lovely risk of "kickback", where they can throw a piece of timber across the workshop and hit someone else entirely with it. And spindle moulders are worse.
I have kids (8 and upwards) in my workshop, and I let them use the machines whilst supervised. The drill press or bandsaw are OK. The table saw isn't, just because it's big and you need to have long arms to be able to use it safely. The jointer is on the "dangerous" list, but the planer is safe because you work that from the other end of the board. The welding gear is safe to use too, so long as I've set it up first.
Jeez, man. That makes my skin crawl to think of it. I've written books on chainsaws, dropped a lot of trees, managed to nick a kneecap with one, and have never even considered doing anything close to that idiotic. When I was doing a lot of cutting, though, ear protection and protective clothing were hard to locate. Thirty years changes a bunch of things.
Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken
That is just Darwin at work. When you legislate for the lowest common denominator, the rest of the population gets excessive inconvience and the gene pool suffers. Pretty soon everyone is the lowest common denominator. :o)
I agree that the chainsaw has far more potential for damage than the bandsaw, but the UK tends to go overboard when it comes to stuff like this. IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now.
They'll get my chainsaw when they pry it from my cold dead hands - no doubt just after I've cut off a leg. :o)
IOW, the more you protect someone from their own folly, the more fools you have.
Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can accomodate dado blades.
and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new one requires a license which he most likely doesn't have, but he does have an ancient chainsaw with no safety features.
Law of unintended consequences sucks, doesn't it? ;-)
My dad is a part time wood turning tutor at an Adult Education college. He once showed me a machinery guidance manual he was issued with while on a safety course. It was mainly written for schools, although sadly most of the rules also apply for adults attending his courses.
As far as I recall it states that responsible students are allowed to use table top bandsaws like a 3 wheel burgess (subject to proper instruction / supervision of course), but should not use floor standing models. (Personally, I think tabletop bandsaws are probably less safe than a well designed full sized machine).
I don't know if that is a hard and fast rule, thankfully the advisor agreed that his adults could use a proper bandsaw once they'd been shown its correct use.
I think there was also something about qualified adult students being allowed to use a tablesaw.
If I remember correctly table mounted routers, spindle moulders and radial arm saws were not permitted.
They also objected to the use of a roughing gouge to remove the corners from square stock on the lathe, favouring bandsawing them off as safer. Not something we would agree with.
No, nor to use one on your own land.
Only if you're looking to buy a top-handle machine (which is a whole pile more dangerous), or you're looking to do "work" with one.
Great justification - shame it's entirely untrue.
There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell any machines big enough to use them).
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