I STILL say be glad they are open on Saturdays! If you want something
that may not be accessible call in advance so you don't waste your time
and increase your blood pressure. SOLVE the problem, instead of merely
whining about how the store is out to inconvenience you.
I love In & Out burgers, but if I don't ask for my burger "well done" it
invariably is too pink for my liking. Rather than complain about how
they can't cook a burger properly, I just ask for it well done when I
order. THAT'S problem SOLVING instead of COMPLAINING.
Ok, I'll give you the point for having to go out of my way to solve or
prevent a potential problem for myself, now, why does the store
management make certain that when they choose to be open, they ensure
there is adequate, properly trained staff available to retrieve items
that they sell? Why make a potential customer responsible for doing
what a business should do as a matter of service? Especially when a
customer cannot be expected to know what items the store CHOOSES to
make inaccessible on SOME operating days.
That is my primary problem with this entire discussion, that you and
others see nothing wrong with a store not serving their customers
appropriately. Appropriately defined as having items the store has in
stock and available on a "weekday" not be available merely because
some employee cannot be bothered to go get it for him. Rob stated
that it is not a matter of training, eliminating the "safety" excuse,
just citing company "policy". A company with a policy that shows its
disregard for its customers, interesting.
I agree if there is willful disregard for their customers, you have a
legitimate gripe, Clif.
OTOH, you KNOW that there are issues with accessibility with some sheet
goods on Saturdays, so calling ahead just seems prudent. Otherwise take
you business elsewhere IF there's anyplace else to go on Saturday that
you prefer. See, my point is that if they are your only option you need
to either work WITH them or go there M-F. What if you worked on
Saturdays and expected them to be open for YOU on Sundays? That's
obviously unreasonable. Think of them being open on Saturday as a
bonus. Perhaps SOME items will be unavailable then. That's something
you KNOW about and should be prepared for.
"The answer to *any* question that starts off "why don't they..." is _always_
'money'." -- Robert A. Heinlein.
I expand on this later..
The answer is simple: Money.
"Appropriately" by _your_ definition.
Maybe we feel that "access to _some_ of the products" on Saturday
is better than "access to *none* of the products" on Saturday -- which
would be the situation if the store was _closed_ on Saturday.
You're a liar. (Since you've chosen to be inflammatory in your mis-
statements of fact, I'll be equally inflammatory in my accurate statements.)
It was *not* "some employee cannot be bothered to", it was "the employee
was NOT ALLOWED, by corporate policy, to". "Management" made that clear,
and you have acknowledged reading that statement from 'management'.
Thus, you have materially, and *KNOWINGLY*, _mis-stated_ the facts. In
other words, you lie.
Of course, if one takes what you wrote 'literally', and -not- as 'what
you meant, not what you said', Then your *entire* argument collapses
into nonsense. To wit:
You defined "appropriately" as:
... having items the store has in stock and available on a "weekday"
_NOT_ be available merely because some employee cannot be bothered
to go get it
Now, by *your* definition of "appropriately"< the store in question _is_
serving their customers "appropriately".
Yet, _you_ "see something wrong with this", apparently.
You demand that they serve their customers 'appropriately', and object
to actions that meet your declared definition of appropriately.
A company that is 'fiscally responsible' -- as it is *required*by*law*
to be, on behalf of it's stockholders.
The economics of the situation *are* simple:
Staffing the 'yard' on Saturday *costs*more* than the additional income
Staffing the 'office' on Saturday brings in *more*revenues* than the
additional costs incurred by being open on Saturday.
Believe it or not, 'serving the convenience of the customer' is *secondary*
to serving the stockholders. *USUALLY*, the two goals are mutually consistent,
but, _when_there_*is*_a_conflict_, serving the stockholder's interest *does*
take precedence. Otherwise, you're in the situation of the guy "who gave
discounts till the day he went broke."
About the only thing you can do is vote with your feet. I did that when a
local computer store charged me 15% restocking fee to literally put the item
on the shelf right by the cash register. (1) The clerk didn't even have to
move his feet. That was, um, two printers and four computers ago, and they
didn't get any part of it.. They chose their policy; I chose mine.
(1) I knew that was their policy but I thought we had an agreement. I
needed a video card but when I got to the store I couldn't remember 100%
sure the chipset needed. To save a trip I bought one of each, and I had the
firm impression I could bring the wrong one back when convenient for full
Not to just jump in but IIRC, the OP said that your salesman simply stated
that "we don't do that on Saturday" without even looking to see if the item
requested was accessible while following union rules. If that is the case,
then you might want to have a talk with your employees. I guess that my
question is if you don't keep some supplies of the more popular items in
your warehouse where they can be reached on a Saturday, why do you bother
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Alex" < email@example.com> wrote in message
On 5 Jan 2004 13:15:25 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org (Alex) wrote:
AH, another UNION deacle. When will we, as a country learn that
unions have grown too fat, lazy and ugly to serve our needs? As a
customer, I don't care if you hire "unionized" workers or not AS LONG
AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted. When businesses cannot do business
for their paying customers, they need to consider other options. If
your locale is a "closed shop" locale, I feel sorry for all of you.
true freedom does not come with union dues, nor with unions
restricting what can and cannot be done by a business owner.
DEATH to most unions!!!!!!!
TANSTAAFL, Robert A. Heinlein
It seems Clif is looking for a place to rant. He was offered a nice
explanation by Alex. But for self-centered Clif...."AS LONG
AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted" it is all about him! If a store is
open on Saturday it means that everybody in the store must jump to his
every whim! And if they don't he must have someone to blame! Never mind
the fact that Paxton is well known for their service. Never mind the fact
that the rules, whether union or not, are there for the safety of the
workers. (How would you like to leave your normal work area, go to a dark
warehouse, finally find the keys to an unfamiliar forktruck and maneuver
several hundred pounds of plywood 25 or 30 feet over your head while
knowing that other customers are waiting for you and nobody else in the
store knows you are in the warehouse or will come to see if you need
You see, basically this is a human rights issue. But Clif is the type of
person who is too blind and uncaring to understand this. He can brag
about having "been able to work diligently enough to earn several hundreds
of thousands each year, Pretty good for a person with a Loyala Univ Info
Systems Bachelors degree" but he obviously don't care if the salesperson
at Paxton has a safe place to work or not. It is also obvious from his
rant that he doesn't care if the salesperson makes a wage that is enough
to feed his family, nor does he care that the people who work in the
warehouse can spend a weekend with their children. He just feels entitled
to them being there to bow to him every minute the door is open and get
him whatever he wants at the lowest price in town because in his life he
is the only one that matters.
In my shop he is the type of person we like to see go to the competing
stores, because we know that no matter how hard we try he will never be
pleased. He is too cheap to spend enough money to make putting up with
him worth our while. And he is too selfcentered to understand that,
though we try to meet the needs of every customer that walks through the
door we must balance that with the requirement that we make enough profit
for all of us, both managers and workers, to live on or we go out of
business. Then everybody loses, customers, managers, workers...everybody.
I am not associated with Paxton except that I have received products from
there and the service has always been good. If you have read this far I
appreciate your putting up with my rant. I am just tired of some people
who are always ready to blame the "unions", "government", (insert one of
many names in the blank), without trying to understand why things are the
way they are and without ever putting any effort into making things better
Why should I be responsible for making things better for others? Is
that not their own responsibility? Oh, I forgot, from each according
to their means, to each according to their needs. Typical
As far as "bowing to my every whim, no, I do not expect that, just
Reasonable access to the retail store's goods whenever the retail
store is OPEN for business.
Thank you for your professional and service oriented reply.
I am sure the molding was from a different supplier and was not my main
concern. As I mentioned, my main problem was the plywood. I drove quite a
ways to find that you had the product but couldn't or wouldn't get it for
Your yard does seem truly inaccessible on Saturday due to overly restrictive
union rules, but I assure you, I have been given plywood on a Saturday
before. I don't know exactly where they went to get it but I do know it was
up a flight of stairs in the back. Perhaps you could have several sheets
brought down on Friday in case a customer comes looking for it on Saturday.
You did have a nice selection but did not have 3/4" oak. I would think that
would be a popular size. Of course, it is possible there were several
sheets there Saturday morning and someone else bought them before I arrived.
I don't have a good answer for that one.
I don't want to think, however, that I have to take off work to reliably buy
plywood from your store.
I will certainly shop your store again. You offer a unique blend of wood
and woodworking products.
Thank you for your response.
FWIW - I've been a Paxton (and other suppliers) customer for over 10 years.
I've always been happy with the Paxton service. In my view they have 2
niche's for the woodworker - great service and great variety in their retail
store. They're sometimes a little pricey (hint, hint Alex), but the pricing
varies between woods and other things, so it's always worth investigating. I
continue to go there because I can almost always find what I'm looking for
and more often than not, I'll find great things I haven't been looking for.
They carry the best selection of exotic woods in the city. And to be fair, I
called them pricey - but I just bought 22 board feet of 8/4 Cocobolo
rosewood from them for $11.33 a bf. I've NEVER seen it that cheap anywhere
so I had to stock up on some of the prettiest wood I've ever worked.
To be honest, I've gotten to know Alex over the past year and always enjoyed
the conversations in the store, the good service and the fact they've always
helped me load my stuff in my car (that's going for a little extra service
I've never gotten anywhere else).
Have you try Liberty Hardwoods, Inc. in 7200 Truman Rd.? MO?
I believe they are more friendly and flexible in their pricing. Their
phone number toll-free 1-888-908-0852 and local number is
I am NOT from Liberty Hardwoods, but a satisfied customer.
I have purchased them before and they are just as good as the REAL
ones. I will be getting more of the other sizes as I need it to
complete many tool cabinets in my garage and sewing room in the
basement for my wife. Their red oak, 4/4 FAS is only $2.15bf and their
Lauan plywood is cheaper than the Home centers here. In fact I get all
my plywood there now.
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