Aluminum oxide wood floor finish

[ksmeltzer]

Does anyone know how much and how fine of aluminum oxide powder should be used in polyurethane to achieve a good strong finish for a site finished floor.

[Charlie Self]

ksmelt snarls his line with:

should be used in polyurethane to achieve a good strong finish for a site finished floor.

[BJT]

While there really is such a thing as an aluminum oxide finish on pre-finished flooring, it's a proprietary finish applied at the factory. It is exceptionally tough and durable, much more so than polyurethane. But it won't last forever, and it is possible to scratch/mar/damage it. Note however, IT CAN NEVER BE REFINISHED, because it is virtually impossible to remove the old finish. Once the finish is damaged or worn to the point it is no longer acceptable, either pull it up and make firewood or buy area rugs or wall-to-wall.

Bruce

[Jim]

There are a number of companies making Polyurethane / Aluminum Oxide flooor finishes. Check with your local paint distributor and it's likely that they can help. If that is not convenient, we carry CrystaLac Poly-Ox which is a water based Poly / aluminum oxide floor finish that doesn't require a decade of experience to apply successfully. Feel free to call our tech support line for additional info, or check out

Ray, President McFeely's Square Drive Screws

[Tim]

Oh I don't know about that! I put 40 grit paper on my 300 lb floor sander, I can sand through anything.....

[fredfighter]

impossible to

Unless its an epoxy, I'd expect stripper to lift it too.

[J. Clarke]

Which brings the real question. Is it aluminum oxide powder in a binder or it is pure aluminum oxide applied by some exotic process? If it's pure aluminum oxide then solvents aren't going to do a thing to it.

[ksmeltzer]

Thanks for all the responses guys but I still need to know what a proper formula is to mix aluminum oxide with polyurethane to achieve the best results. I am looking for mesh size as well as amount to use you know something like "well I use 200 mesh and add a half pound of AO to 1 gallon of polyurethane" or something like that. Some would have people believe that it is a complicated process but it really just consists of adding AO to polyurethane you can use UV lights to fast cure if you want but that is about as complicated as it gets. I just wanted to get a good formula instead of doing the old trial and error routine.

[J. Clarke]

What leads you to believe that anyone is finishing floors by adding aluminum oxide to polyurethane?

[Charles Spitzer]

Al2O3 to be pedantic

[Dan Oelke]

The reason you aren't getting useful responses is probably because no one who has read your message has done this. Don't assume it's something personal against you.

FWIW - almost everything I have read talks of AO being a "factory" only method. That probably just means that the products haven't made it to the wider community yet. Which means that your chances of finding someone here who knows this is probably pretty slim.

I did Google and found in about 10 minutes this link:

someone has listed two possible commercial premixed solutions - Trek Plus and Fuhr Aluminum Oxide Modified Urethane

Dan

[J. Clarke]

Googling farther the Fuhr product is "Fuhr 855" and is waterborne, while the Trek Plus product appears to be a 2K urethane.

[ksmeltzer]

The flooring manufactures produce AO finished products so I assumed that onsite finishers would have devised a similar solution to do this. I have personally blended boron carbide and diamond powder with polyurethane to produce anti wear coats in high end furniture and it is extremely strong but these powders are cost prohibitive to use in flooring applications. So I figured someone might know the recipe for using AO with polyurethane.

[ksmeltzer]

Dan, Thanks for the response and I did not assume that it was personal; I was just trying to refocus on the issue I am trying to resolve. If I came off short, I apologize and I did not mean to sound tripe or rude, I just wanted to remind everyone that I would still like to find a mix if anyone has one. When I asked the question, I realized that I very well may be the first one to try this and if I am so be it. I will defiantly come back and post my findings if I have to do the Guinea Pig route.

As for the AO being a factory finishes, I believe that it is put out there by the manufactures. It is no different than using Boron Carbide or diamond powder to reinforce a finish and both of those are done by just mixing the powders directly into polyurethane. You just have to make sure that you get the right mesh size and mix the right amounts about 5% powder to volume of finish for boron and 3% powder to volume for diamond at a mesh size of 600.

[Dan Oelke]

Interesting. I had never heard of anyone doing this - but then I am by no means a finishing expert. (much much closer to newbie than expert.)

So in your experiments with born and diamond powder - do you have any measurement of how much more wear resistance this provided?

[ksmeltzer]

amounts

expert.)

I don't have measurements on the amount of resistance to damage using diamond powder or Boron have as opposed to using straight urethane, just subjective evidence that convinced me to use them on my better pieces of work. My father worked for a high-end paint company that makes a product consisting of 300 mesh diamond powders mixed with urethane, one day he applied some to some scrap yellow pine and then smacking it with a hammer after it was dry to see how strong it was. The pine did not dent the finish cracked a little but it did not dent, after seeing that any surface I need durability on such as a desktop or a table top I have always added one or the other to the mix and have never had to refinish a piece of work . Not to mention that diamond powder creates a beautiful finish.

Diamond is the hardest substance registering a 10 on the Moh's scale as well Boron is right up there with a 9 and AO weighs in at 7.5 so they are extremely hard substances adding them to urethane in sufficient amounts causes a nearly solid coat to be applied to the surface. It is not as hard as solid diamond or solid boron but is far harder than just urethane by itself.

One thing to remember with Boron though is that it will change (darken) the pigment of the urethane. As well I belive AO turns white if too much is added.

[J. Clarke]

Doesn't that tend to darken things a bit?

[ksmeltzer]

Yes, you can only use boron carbide when you are trying to achieve a darkened look such as staining or ebonizing, it is hidden fairly well when using it on dark walnuts and mahogany. Diamond powder is fairly translucent and seems to me to only add a sparkle to the finish and can be used on light maple, oak ect. it is just more expensive.

[Avraham]

Where would you buy the right size of boron or diamond powder? Thanks! A

[ksmeltzer]

EBay, search for boron carbide or diamond powder. Anything below 200 mesh usually between 300 and 600. The larger the mesh the thicker the particle and therefore the stronger but also the more gritty and the less it blends with the urethane. I use 600 to 1000 mesh on furniture but on these floors, that I am doing myself, I am going to try 200 Mesh AO and if that does not work, I am going to move to a finer mesh like

300 which I know will blend for boron or diamond but I have never worked with AO. Anyway, I have a pound of 200 meshes AO (from EBay) on the way and will see how it goes. This goes without saying but blend outside and always use a respirator, I have suffered no ill effects from blending them but I am not a chemical engineer so do not take my word for it use a chemical respirator as you should always do with urethane. Oh yeah and don't blend it into the can blend it in a container and do not pour the leftover into the urethane as it will settle or at least make sure you shake the can well every time you use it to re suspend the mix if you decide mix it directly into your can.