90 Degree Angle Braces - $$$$$$$!!

[Guess who]

Here's one source that might help you:

Google for more if you don't have personal experience.

[Mike Marlow]

That markup seems pretty high Edwin. There is more than just the cost of raw material to be considered. There's the cost of manufacturing and potentially middle- costs. That would make the markup on the "produce" less than the 4X for raw materials. The poster we both replied to and the comment we were both commenting on was a finished goods cost of $10.

[Mike Marlow]

I imagine every distributor and every retailer in the world would love to work under the margin scheme you suggest. The reality is far from those types of markups though.

[igor]

If you want 2 pair, they are about 20% cheaper at McFeelys:

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The finished cost of $10 is from someone that intends on making an equivalent himself; nothing to do with actual cost. He has not responded yet to my offer to buy them at that price and probably will not. The cost of these brackets is less than the $10 he mentioned.

I'm basing my opinion on what I see and what I have experienced. Take a look at the parts in question. Now look at the operations to make them. Shear a blank, punch press, brake, polish, check tolerances, package, label, warehouse, ship, bill. Now the seller orders them, receives, warehouses, prints a catalog, advertises, receives orders, warehouses, picks order, packs, ships, bills. We've not even considered insurance, operating costs, utilities, employee benefits, taxes, and finally some profit.

I'm basing my opinion (and we both only have opinions) on my experience in doing pricing of manufactured items in both the retail and industrial markets. If you have experience with this, can tell me the steps of manufacturing and associated cost, travel through the supply chain, I'll willing to listen and perhaps change my opinion.

Not related to just this item: Funny how many people complain about the perceived high cost of an item and also complain that industry and retail don't pay their employees enough of a wage to make a living. The retailer is gouging us and making a fortune and at the same time retailers are filing for bankruptcy and their employees are complaining they don't get paid enough and have poor benefits. I do know that I sure don't have the answers.

[mp]

The material costs are indeed minimal but don't forget that these items are not just stamped aluminum. The faces are milled square. Think you could make them to the same level of accuracy and make a profit at $12.50 per item? And out of that $12.50 comes labour, tooling, business overhead, distribution, and retail profits.

[Brian In Hampton]

I can them COD if you like @ 10.00 a pair....Brian You are correct about the marketing with the printing and all that but the raw product can be made for that though.......Brian

[J T]

Sun, Jan 9, 2005, 5:19pm [e-mail] (Guess=A0who) says: Here's one source that might help you:

Thanks, but I'm aware of that. You're missing it too. I just don't believe that EVERY weld has to be stress relieved; and, the impression I get, he does.

JOAT Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get.

- =A0Dale Carnegie

[Brian In Hampton]

Those brackets are not welded anyway.....Brian

[Mike Marlow]

Likewise I base my comments on certain experiences. Mine might not totally parallel yours but I do have a great deal of experience in goods in the supply chain and the incremental markups. I have never seen the types of markups that have been spoken about here as a normal part of the supply chain. What I have seen and in this point we might be closer to agreeing more completely, is that specialty shops will tend to price higher simply because of what the market will bear rather than because of costs incurred throughout the supply chain.

A well taken point. To a degree, I'm a walking contradiction. I'm a capitalist at heart and have no philosophical problem with profit at all. Especially large profits. On the other hand, I'm not often inclined to contribute to those profits without seeing the value for the product. I'm fine with the merchant or the manufacturer getting all they can get, but I'm equally fine voicing my opinion on the worth of the product. Likewise, I am amused at those who complain about high prices and then complain about low wages at places like Wal Mart, etc. For the most part, I don't believe that most major retailers are really gouging all that bad. Competition keeps things somewhat in check. It's just too easy for people to sit back - usually too uninformed, and complain about the huge profits the corporations are making. The simple fact is that profits generally only come through providing what people want.

[Mike Marlow]

Produced in quantity, these costs are miniscule. Once tooling is set up it's a run. And tooling for this particular product is not that elaborate. The accuracy they would have you believe is so critical is really rather trivial for any shop. One would wonder though, why they would go to the extent of milling when other, more economical but equally effective methods exist.

[mp]

Still, someone has to buy the tooling and set it up, and the production run would be limited as these are not high volume products. Do you think $12.50 per piece at the retail level is unreasonable? Don't forget these are made in the US, not in China or some other third world country.

[Roger Shoaf]

Well, I'm not about to got into a buchch of "how I'd do it", and variables include type of joining used, angle iron thickness, etc.. But, yeah, I expect I could do it without warping, and no machining. Not in 30 seconds, but doable close enuogh to zero as to not matter - then you paint it yellow. I figure most people here could, after a bit of practice. Then there's always the 10% that couldn't do it with a robot welder.

But, I doubt I'd do it, I'd probably just use plywood, as described by someone else. Faster, easier, cheaper, just as accurate.

I suppose it comes down to a matter of accuracy. If I was going to make a reference standard I would not like to have an out of square error of .020 over a six inches, but others might think that error to be too trivial to worry about.

[Mike Marlow]

Well, my personal opinion is that they are hardly worth anything - but that is nothing more than a personal opinion. That opinion is based on the commonplace nature of alternate solutions which serve the purpose nicely. To me it just simply looks like a solution looking for a problem. I guess, to fairly answer your question, I would not consider the value they bring to be more than a $2.00 proposition. But again - that's just my opinion.

[Guess who]

...or, moreso, convincing them that this is what they want.

[bridger]

I have some experience with the gems industry. there markups of 100% to 500% are not uncommon, at *each* level of distribution. OTOH, inventory is very expensive and often moves slowly.

[bridger]

where does it say they are milled?

"Many woodworkers have difficulty assembling projects; it is hard to square corners while juggling clamps. More disheartening is leaving the glue to cure, only to discover that things crept out of alignment while the piece was clamped.

This pair of right-angle brackets is ideal for temporarily attaching to opposite corners of a cabinet carcass, drawer or box to prevent this frustration. Accurately made from 3/16" aluminum, they are square to a tolerance comparable to most machine squares.

May also be used as braces for constructing power tool jigs or assembly fixtures."

[bridger]

the tooling to make these is the same as the tooling to make any of the simpson strongtie hardware. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the manufacturer *was* simpson.

where does it say these are made in the US?

Many woodworkers have difficulty assembling projects; it is hard to square corners while juggling clamps. More disheartening is leaving the glue to cure, only to discover that things crept out of alignment while the piece was clamped.

This pair of right-angle brackets is ideal for temporarily attaching to opposite corners of a cabinet carcass, drawer or box to prevent this frustration. Accurately made from 3/16" aluminum, they are square to a tolerance comparable to most machine squares.

May also be used as braces for constructing power tool jigs or assembly fixtures.

[bridger]

or from eliminating all alternatives.

you will be assimilated....

[Joe Gorman]

chiming in rather late in the threadbut, You could bypass Lee Valley and buy directly form the maker:

you have to buy 4, for a slighly higher price. Joe