I'm pretty handy with most things, but a light fitting in my daughter's house has me foxed.
It has three wires, all single strand 0.5 mm, leading to three seperate terminals on the bayonet fitting. I'm used to seeing L/N terminals plus a seperate common. -- ????????
Isn't this junction box wiring or a spur connection from another rose (do two lights turn on when you flick the switch?)?
I only know because I've been reading about them in Collin's DIY book and have added a spur light to an existing ceiling rose and that only has a T&E cable going to the spur.
DISCLAIMER: I'm *NO* electrician!
Cheers,
Andy
It isn't being used as a junction box. You've probably got live/neutral/earth going to a junction box somewhere else. You should have a red wire, a black wire and a solid wire (with added on green/yellow sleeving hopefully) in a common white or grey sheath that disappears off somewhere. If you have something different, you may need a rewire eventually, especially if turns out to be rubber or something.
Christian.
Are the "three wires" all cores in a single cable? And by "the bayonet fitting", do you mean the lampholder itself, i.e. the bit wot hangs down from the ceiling, or the "ceiling rose", the bit fixed to the ceiling (wot the bit wot hangs down hangs down from, if you see wot I mean...)
*If* all 3 wires are in a single outer sheath (which to be fair you might not be able to see all that well, as sometimes - in violation of Good Workmanship - the outer sheath is stripped back too far) then what you're seeing is Quite Normal for the last rose on a loop-in circuit (since there is nowhere left to Feed), and also Quite Normal for wiring done with junction boxes or where connections are made in the lightswitches (and with bits of choccie block in the lightswitch box). In all 3 of these cases you end up with one T&E cable at the light fitting, bringing E, N, and switched live to the lighting point.If, however, you mean that these are "singles" - wires either without an outer sheath, meant for use in conduit, or (more rarely still in in domestic practice) a single insulated wire with a second outer sheath - you'll need to tell us a lot more.
If you do mean the lampholder rather than the rose - well, it's normal enough (indeed, essential for safety) to use a 3-core flex to bring not just switched-L and N but also the E down to a *metal* lampholder, e.g. when it's in a decorative fitting with lots of metalwork (think Gothick chandelier) - and there are two obvious terminals for the two pins of the bayonet, and a third obvious terminal for the E which is visibly part of the outer metalwork. Again, if you have something other than this, we'll need more details to work out what you have...
Stefek
It looks like a normal batten fitting. She lives 50 miles away so I can't readily have a quick look, but the third wire is definitely not an earth. I've never seen a batten fitting - its modern white plastic BTW - with three terminals, none of which has any markings. Thanks for trying to help me guys
On 06 Apr 2004 07:12:43 GMT, in uk.d-i-y snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Paper2002AD) strung together this:
On 06 Apr 2004 07:12:43 GMT, in uk.d-i-y snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Paper2002AD) strung together this:
A picture may help. Do you mean in the part of the fitting attached to the ceiling? What colours are the wires? How old is it?
"Christian McArdle" wrote
I've used reels and reels of earth sleeving over the years, cos it's invariably missing on all the bits of work i'm asked to do :-/
It's a good indicator that a bodge artist has been at work though.
Why do people omit this, it's hardly expensive and takes seconds to fit ....
Cheers,
Paul.
Are you sure it's not installations predating that requirement (around 1970 IIRC)?
I don't come across much missing earth sleeving, but I hardly ever see any red sleeving when live is carried in the black wire.
Ah, good call. Maybe I should be suggesting 30 year old wiring is replaced :-)
Definitely. Been there, used the mains tester ..
Cheers,
Paul.
There isn't anything intrinsicly wrong with wiring that old, providing it was correctly installed and has not been bodged. My parents' house is 50 years old and the original wiring is still sound, although I rewired the kitchen when refitting it (not enough sockets nowadays) and replaced the original consumer unit some years back. Fittings do need checking, and it was during such a check I found the 30A fuse carrier had a bad contact which required replacement of the CU. Certainly no one should be using 50 year old wiring which has not been checked over.
Actually, that reminds me, what little I have seen has often been fitted to the wrong wire, and it's better not there at all than wrongly fitted like that.
are these 3 terminals the terminals in a ceiling rose or batten holder fitting marked loop, neutral and switched live ? 0.5 mm cable is the ( generally ) blue and brown cable that leave the rose at the far terminals at each end of rose and are wired to the bayonet fitting where you insert light bulb. Even if wired from a JB you will have 5 wires in the rose.Black sleeved red + red + earth and blue and brown as explained above.
yes you are right and I always assume on a lighting cct black is live.Generally because it is !
On 07 Apr 2004 14:44:08 GMT, in uk.d-i-y snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Wheelbarrowbob) strung together this:
This wouldn't be the case if it was wired from a JB, it wouldn't have red sleeving because it would be the neutral. I think you should have replied to the OP, not me!
Hmmm, just call me bodger : ) I didn't know that the earth was supposed to be shielded inside junction boxes, light fittings etc. I have done so because I've just copied what I have come across before. I also don't really see the point in, for example, metal backed boxes where you connect the earth to the box anyway. Am I missing something?
Regards, Jim.
Earth sleeve is used to protect people from shock ie poking a finger or screwdriver into a rose jb etc and inadvertentley bridging between live and a bare earth wire. Also a bare earth wire over time will ( if touching ) a live conductor wear away the insulation and cause a fault. Just 2 reasons there are probably more.
Yeah, like the junction box I spent this afternoon replacing...
Two lights on two switches wired from one four-terminal jb. Erm... that doesn't work, what do we do with the extra switched live? Oh, just twist the ends together and leave dangling in mid air. Darn, can't get the lid on now, never mind. Yes, it does look a total mess, I didn't quite get the lengths right so they wires are a bit folded up, and I can't be bothered with the earth sleeving. I'll just put a great slab of Rockwool over the top and no-one need ever know...
...so there's me, maybe ten years after the event described above happily sorting out problems further up the line when I discover that one end of the upstairs lighting is supplied via a short length of rubber singles (not bad nick, but beginning to go, and no earth of course).
So after the house owner hacks a bit of stud wall off to find the hidden junction box, I replace the rubber with nice, earthed, PVC and pull this jb back into an accessible position. Good, thinks I, only 4 o'clock and I've nearly done all I need to today. Test the lights - you never know!
BANG!
Fuse pops.
After a bit of rooting about I discover aforementioned junction box (in a different attic), where over time the earths had moved and were touching the SL that was actually in a terminal.
In other words, before I'd stuck my earth in, EVERY time this particular light was switched on, ALL the fittings (and they're all metal) in that end of the house would have been live. Two of them are in an en-suite, one directly above an over-bath shower.
I ended up replacing the whole lot, but of course all my faffing about in the attic had disturbed the cables from the jb to the light fittings. These were recessed R80-types, and had had Rockwool laid over the top of them causing the PVC cable to fail and...
BANG!
Fuse pops again.
Blasted bodgers.
Oh well, it's a good excuse to get the owners to buy some new light fittings...
Hwyl!
M.
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