Wiki:Dishwasher



I buy the Finish tablets from Costco for other parts of the family. IME, they usually have one or two types of the Finish tablets in store, but exactly which these are from the Finish range varies. They also very frequently have one of them on offer.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

That sounds like a girlfriend.
--
Adam



Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I would need to earn around 30% risk-free interest before that worked. I'm miles ahead on the deal.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
     snipped-for-privacy@care2.com writes:

I would say most machines last longer than 10 years (IME), but most machines will need some repairs in that period. If you can DIY repair them (I do across the extended family), that probably makes an enormous difference to the economics of the machine (cost of parts alone is usually a tiny fraction of the cost of a callout plus heavily marked-up parts, and often no parts are needed for a repair).

This will depend heavily on how someone does handwashing, but I believe in most comparative tests, people use vastly more hot water hand washing than a dishwasher uses in a cycle.

You haven't taken into account the procrastination time...

I strongly suspect (but haven't actually bothered to work it out), that using tablets is probably significantly more expensive than using powder or liquid detergent, rinse-aid, and salt. In particular, tabs are sized to clean a full load, whereas with liquid or powder detergents, you can dose according to load size and grease. If you have a smaller model machine, the tabs will be even more oversized.
The other thing is that dishwasher liquid/powder detergent can be a useful thing to have around for cleaning other things - it's fantastic and incredibly quick (takes seconds) to clean even the mankiest of stainless steel sinks, hobs, etc. Need to be aware it can give you chemical burns though - not to be used in contact with your skin.
In the context of detergents, need to include a warning about children getting access to any sort of dishwasher detergent. However, one in particular is suddenly generating increasing A&E admissions, and that's the liquid pouches, which unfortunately look a bit like sweets, and have a great texture to chew on, until it bursts in your mouth. Child then ends up with a tube down their airway for a week until the swelling goes down, and in some cases operations have been required to reconstruct the throat. As yet, no one has died in this country, but it's probably just a matter of time before someone takes too long to get to A&E with a swolen blocked airway.

softens it temporarily, then wiping with a copper scourer. Remove from dishwasher at the end of the wash cycle while its still hot, not after the full cycle is finished.

wash programs. Egg needs to be cold washed to avoid it setting, and programs designed for oven dishes [[heat]] up right away.

over many washes. OK for a one off wash of tools, or for low value disposable goods such as cooking spatulas.

of electrical goods and parts can be dishwashed. However its essential to choose correctly which can and can't, and also necessary to use a safe drying procedure, which isn't as simple as leave till touch dry.

same job as the salt in the salt reservoir (ie to refresh the ion exchanger). The salt reservoir still needs to be filled.

[Needs something here about diagnosing a wash cycle which hasn't worked due to machine fault. For starters...]
* Spin spray arm by hand to make sure nothing is interfering with it. * You can check they rotate in operation by opening the door a few times and noticing that they have changed position. If they rotate freely by hand but not when the machine operates, check the angled jets which propel the arm for blockage. * If a spray arm is attached to and comes out with the wire rack, check the spray arm water connection. Sometimes it's a plug-in seal which fails, sometimes it's a jet into a cone, which might get blocked by something badly placed in the wire rack. * Leaving dirty things in the dishwasher too long before washing makes them harder to clean. In the case of a large dishwasher for one person, you may need to run it more frequently than you can fill it up. If dirty plates/cutlary actually goes moldy whilst waiting to be washed, the moldy areas sometimes won't clean properly, and you should be running the machine more often.

A couple of drips will do. A squirt will generate foaming inside which stops the dishwasher working, and may even cause foam to spill out and/or trigger internal leak detector shutdown. It's also difficult to rinse out the foam and a standard dishwasher rinse cycle isn't designed to do so.

delaying its release into the wash [[water]] until the main wash cycle, as the initial rinse is cold. Ways to do this include:

use a wax insert under the cap to open only when hot. But the cost is several times as much.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

http://www.landtechnik.uni-bonn.de/research/appliance-technology/publications/05-03-01-washing-up-behaviour
plus other links here
http://www.landtechnik.uni-bonn.de/research/appliance-technology/completed-projects
--
Adam



Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Saturday, September 8, 2012 12:23:50 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

its difficult picking a figure with any accuracy. The point I was really looking to make is that even if it only lasts 10 years, its still 60p an hour.

I worked it out months back, and saw no gain in using powders. If anyone has a cost per wash for them...

I'm inclined to leave faults and repairs to another article.

Right, I've tackled that in the article now, albeit not the way you're suggesting there. See what you think.

NT
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Saturday, September 8, 2012 9:39:53 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

Latest version...
This applies to domestic '''dishwashers'''. Catering machines are quite different.
==Costs== * A £300 machine lasting 10yrs = £30/yr = 57p a week. * [[Electricity]] use is comparable to power use for handwash water [[heating]], so is not an added cost * [[Detergent]] tabs 7.5p a wash * salt £1.30/yr = 2.5p/week
2 machine washes a week = 57+15+2.5 = 84.5p
If we estimate 12 minutes a day handwashing, that's 84 mins a week.
Thus each hour of handwashing avoided costs '''60p'''. Working for 60p an hour seems to be popular.
[[Water]] use is typically less than hand washing dishes.
==Cleaning== Baked on grease can be removed from wire oven shelves by dishwashing, which softens it temporarily, then wiping with a copper scourer. Remove from dishwasher at the end of the wash cycle while its still hot, not after the full cycle is finished.
Baked on grease is mostly not removed from non-stick goods, but regular washing can at least slow down its formation.
Egg and egg mixes can cook and stick on rather than [[clean]] off with some wash programs. Egg needs to be cold washed to avoid it setting, and programs designed for oven dishes [[heat]] up right away.
[[Wood]]en items can be dishwashed, but the wood surface slowly deteriorates over many washes. OK for a one off wash of tools, or for low value disposable goods such as cooking spatulas.
==Other uses== Cleaning many diy items
===Descaling=== Goods can be descaled in a dishwasher by putting citric acid in the detergent dispenser instead of [[detergent]].
===Electrical goods=== Despite the usual advice to never mix [[electricity]] and water, a wide range of electrical goods and parts can be dishwashed. However its essential to choose correctly which can and can't, and also necessary to use a safe drying procedure, which isn't as simple as leave till touch dry.
This should not be attempted by anyone without the necessary [[electrical]] expertise to do it [[safe]]ly.
===Cooking=== The art of dishwasher cooking has a small cult following. Care is necessary to avoid washwater & detergent contamination.
===Not able to=== Dishwashers do '''not''' sterilise items.
One use we can't really recommend is cleaning the toilet seat by putting it in with the dishes. Apparently this was actually done in one US restaurant. Yum.
==Glass etching== A small percentage of glassware slowly gets etched, going cloudy. Some lead glass is vulnerable, some isn't. Is caused by the hot alkali, and there's no remedy other than not dishwashing it, to avoid the cloudy area growing.
Its also possible to get hard water desposits on glass if salt & rinse aid aren't used. These come off with vinegar.
==Detergent== The author has used various brands of detergent tablets from cheapo to expensive brands, and has never found any difference in the end result.
Separate detergent and rinse aid is cheaper than the more expensive brands of detergent tablets.
Dishwasher detergent is also very good at cleaning hobs, sinks etc. Use it with hot water and avoid skin contact, it can cause chemical burns.
==Salt== All in one tablets contain salt, but its not used in the machine to do the same job as the salt in the salt reservoir (ie to refresh the ion exchanger). The salt reservoir still needs to be filled, unless your water is very soft.
Only use dishwasher salt. Other grades are much too impure, and stop the ion exchanger working, causing scaling & water spotting.
==Rinse aid== One uk.d-i-yer says his machine cleans fine with no salt or rinse aid.
==Maintenance== * Unblock spray arm jets & check they rotate ok * [[Acid]] clean the machine * Ensure the machine has salt in the reservoir * Clean filters
==When it doesn't clean== When a dishwasher doesn't clean stuff off, the following can be used: * An overnight soak in water before dishwashing removes a lot of muck * A 2 day soak in bleach removes more resistant muck * Cleaning ceramics, glass & plastics with hydrochloric [[acid]] removes just about everything else, including rust marks * Vinegar soaking removes a fair range of muck films on stainless steel pans * Spots of rust & muck on steel can be removed with a copper scourer or a brass brush in a [[die grinder]].
==Cleaning the dishwasher== Proteins form a gloop that accummulates in some hidden parts of the machine, causing smells, bacterial & [[mould]] growth and sometimes machine failure.
Ordinary washing up liquid removes muck dishwasher [[detergent]] doesn't. A few drips of it in the machine before starting avoids buildup. Don't overdo it.
Acetic & citric [[acid]]s tackle both protein gloop and [[limescale]]. These need to be used without the usual [[detergent]], which is [[alkali]]ne.
They are far more effective used hot than cold. For it to work hot requires delaying its release into the wash [[water]] until the main wash cycle, as the initial rinse is cold. Ways to do this include: *putting [[acid]] powder in the [[detergent]] drawer *or using a commercial delayed release dishwasher [[clean]]er bottle. These use a wax insert under the cap to open only when hot. But the cost is several times as much.
==Child safety== Dishwasher detergents are alkaline, and need to be kept well away from young children and animals.
Liquid pouches in particular have caused A&E admissions. They look a bit like sweets, and have a great texture to chew on, until it bursts in the mouth. Child then ends up with a tube down their airway for a week until the swelling goes down, and in some cases operations have been required to reconstruct the throat.
==Smell & mould== Closing the door for days on end with dirty dishes inside causes mould & smells. Leave the door ajar and this doesn't normally happen, the air circulation plus drying prevent it.
==See also== [[Dishwasher repair]]
[[Category:Appliances]] [[Category:Cleaning]] [[Category:Kitchens]]
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sep 8, 9:39 am, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

Surely they don't. The ones I've seen mention 'salt effect', in other words they contain some water-softening ingredient which is supposed to reduce or eliminate the need for salt to regenerate the ion- exchange resin. But I would have thought NaCl itself was an entirely unsuitable ingredient.
Richard. http://www.rtrussell.co.uk /
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Suggestions welcome... <snip>
It beats me why you bother, 5 mins each night, by hand, and it's done. Why TF do you need/want dishwashers? When I was a kid..............and still had change from a farthing.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The two domestic chores I hate most are dishwashing and ironing. Neither gets done. The machine only gets run when it's full, the most economical way of doing it, and if it needs ironing, I don't wear it. Getting the stuff out of the washing machine as soon as it's finished and hanging it up carefully to dry removes the need to iron most things.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Monday, September 10, 2012 1:57:57 AM UTC+1, brass monkey wrote:

How about you come over to mine for 5 minutes every day, I'll put you to work and pay you 60p an hour. No? Whyever not?
NT
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.