I have just called our local water board to find out the water hardness in our area and was told it is 15-20 German degrees. Our dishwasher only has settings for 12-17 and 18-23 German degrees, so the estimate from the water board is bang in the middle. I just wondered which way I should jump - err on the low side or the high side - in order to maximise the longevity of the appliance - any thoughts?
Try the lower setting for a while, then the higher one and compare results. Almost certainly it varies the dosing rate of salt through the softener. If the lower setting is giving good results I would leave it because it will use less salt. You can always increase it if needed. I don't think that either would have a major impact either way on appliance life
.andy
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Any thoughts on softening of mains supply?
Yes. Use an ion exchange water softener. This is the only technology that softens water.
.andy
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RO, distillation?
Well OK. However, you wouldn't use these to provide the total needs for a house. An RO unit would be enormous to be able to produce reasonable quantities and distillation a bit on the dear side
Also, from the perspective of reducing the amount of detergent used, I've a feeling that having the increase in sodium ions from ion exchange helps with that.
.andy
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Both unfeasably expensive to do whole house water.
We RO our drinking water, but the RO required for 50x the volume would be somewhat larger than the unit we currently have, which occupies most of the under-sink cupboard.
As for distillation, speaking as someone who used to run a water still, the energy cost will be enormous. Huge.
I wonder about vacuum distillation, using solar energy at say 30C or so.
I'm unsure about the cost of removing dissolved gasses.
True, thinking about it, it's not for whole house.
I don't think it matters, because... Our dishwasher has a salt reservoir and a tablet dispenser, but... We no longer use the salt reservoir at all (and we're in a hard water area). If you use the 3-in-1 tablets (ie Finish etc) they provide the correct salt dosage for the water in your general area. In actual fact, the salt dosage of 3-in-1 tablets is not uniform across the whole country! What you buy from the supermarket is specific to your area (unbelievable - but true). All of the packages LOOK the same (for a particular manufacturer), but the salt dosage varies with service area.
Unfortunately, I cannot provide absolute on-line proof of this - I noticed this whilst on holiday when looking at the packet ingredients and comparing the box from home with the newly bought box (as you do!).
I
I am not sure that they contain salt in the same way that you would put it into the softener Paul.
In a DW, the softener is between the input solenoid valve and the entry to the machine, and the salt goes in there. There is no way for salt that is in a tablet to reach said softener.
Detergents such as washing up liquid certainly do contain salt, but I am not sure that DW tablets would directly. They probably have some sort of water treatment chemical such as a polyphosphate and it could be that the dosage of that varies.
.andy
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The 3 in 1 tablets, are precisely that - they perform the functions of detergent / rinse aid / salt. They recommend you only use additional salt in the DW in particularly hard water areas. Jabster, as Paul recommended just stick in 3 in 1 tablets and ignore the salt reservoir. (If you are going to use DW salt, I'd go for the low setting)
You back pump saltsolution though a permutit or ion exchange water softener so that the Calcium ions stored in the resin get replaced with sodium. When the ordinary water goes through the Calciums in the water get replaced by Sodium from the resin thus removing the hardness (CaHCO3).
Robert
Indeedydeedy
when I dissscovveeered this 3-in-1 tabs, i foned Bosch to check if they were A1-all-ok and to see if i didn't need the salt aneemore - they told me 2 keep using the salt....as the machine decides how much salt to use as instucted by you seting the dial so the tab may not give enough and it is used in the detergennt cycle and not tooo treet the H2O
g-g-g-ginboy
This is market-speak. When they use the term "salt" they are addressing an audience which does not understand why you put salt in the salt reservoir - only that you do. So it's easier for them to say that the tablet replaces the salt, but not explaining it.
.andy
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Right, but in the case of a dishwasher this is achieved by passing fresh water from the mains through the salt chamber at a certain point in the cycle and in turn through the ion exchange chamber and on out. They don't take water from the washing compartment and pump that through. For one thing it's dirty and for another it contains detergents.
.andy
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On 09 Jul 2004, Andy Hall wrote
-snip-
Coincidentally, this topic was specifically raised in a round-up review of dishwashers that I read this past week (in the Guardian, based on a Good Housekeeping series of tests).
They pointed out exactly what you say: the 3-in-1 "with salt" tablets don't eliminate the need for regular dishwasher salt.
-snip-
To bolster this point, here's an excerpt from the advice site
WHY DOES MY MACHINE HAVE A WATER SOFTENER? If the water is soft (i.e. does not contain calcium particles), the detergent will work more effectively and there will be less streaking on dishes. Hard water can also block the washer jets with lime scale and cause deposits on heating elements, which will reduce the cleaning efficiency, increase electricity costs and shorten the life of the machine. All dishwasher manufacturers and detergent suppliers want you to get the best results from the machine - and soft water is one of the most important factors in achieving this. The way to ensure water remains soft is to regularly top up the reservoir with granular salt. Three in one salt tablets do not activate the water softener. For optimum results, the reservoir should be topped up with granular salt. Three-in-one and 'salt action' tablets do not top up the reservoir and should be used in conjunction with granular salt for optimum results.
-- Cheers, Harvey
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